The elegant email

A while ago I started hassling anons about their approach when dealing with Scientologists. Honestly at times I've wanted to reach through the computer and dope-slap the hell out of a few..

As I've always maintained, I am NOT anonymous... But since someone talked me into getting on here to see about getting some info for discrediting their study tech.. I thought it was finally time to let you know WHY I've been getting progressively more irritated with some of the aggressive tactics I've seen used in anon videos.

What follows is a letter which was sent to me from someone that defected from COS after a rather lengthy series of conversations.

-------------------------------------
[LETTER BEGINS]

Due to a few situations that have occurred recently, combined with a number of situations I rationalized as okay because of my former beliefs, I've chosen not to be a Scientologist.

Seeing things in this light, here is my opinion. Scientology praises self-determinism as opposed to other-determinism. However most Scientologists are other-determined and sacrifice their self-determinism at the door in order to further the goal of Scientology, which as a whole is self-determined. Put another way, this is mind-control.

Hubbard also praised responsibility. However the church, especially the concept of a case-supervisor, is set up to avoid responsibility should problems or upsets arrive.

The trap of Scientology is that so many of the concepts are beneficial and brilliant, but along the way it is very easy to abide by the party line that Hubbard was infallible and every piece of data he wrote was correct. In Scientology, if you disagree with Hubbard, it inevitably comes back to you being wrong or having committed a crime.

If you pick up a copy of 8-8008, it actually has a footnote that says too much Dianetic auditing is known to turn on the reactive mind without it turning off. In normal terms, this means too much Dianetic auditing causes insanity. Yet the church still sells the book.

While this can't be proven currently, I believe Hubbard suffered from a mental problem, was removed from the navy for a mental disability, and spent the rest of his life proving to the world he was right and mocking up certain characteristics of his enemies (fascist management characteristics). Hubbard was a genius and was of a higher class, thus making the whole process he undertook easier to sell.

In closing, the works of L. Ron Hubbard cover the biggest problems humanity faces. There are numerous concepts that have truth contained in them, that are beneficial. But with that, I believe Hubbard ingrained his own shortcomings into the collective technology, which was sealed with the policy of keeping scientology working (KSW).

The statistics of Scientology speaks for itself. If 20% of the population is evil, then how come the 80% do not stay in the organization or shun it? The answer is because Scientology is a cult that is running off of incorrect data, combined with enough true data and hope to rationalize its shortcomings.

I really wanted to believe LRH was right about everything. Seeing the truth has been a relief but luckily it hasn't been a loss. Self-determinism and responsibility are concepts that I will continue to better myself with and teach.

The major cognition I have understood is that Scientology sells you on the idea of yourself becoming a super being. In order to buy it, you have to have something to compare that state of awareness to. So what did I and people I know compare it to? Imaging the times in life when we were most cause, happy, and doing great. The sale occurs, when you start believing you can attain that state 24/7.

One only has to look at OT's, clears, and management people that have been on tv/dvd's to see that the reality and the dream is one created not by Hubbard but by believing one is making and reaching towards that dream (I.E. one believes, therefor one becomes. Now you know why these "OT powers" are never demonstrated, and why these OT's don't create the promised outcome that Hubbard envisioned).

This is why, when you are critical about Scientology to a Scientologist, the reaction is so severe. In essence, the person thinks you are trying to take away every good moment in their life with the possibility those moments will be a constant affair. And since the critics are angry about a human rights issue, obviously they are not going to be serene when talking about the danger. The subconscious logic of the Scientologist, is since this critic is not serene, they must be wrong. Then it's easy to label them suppressive, or PTS, hiding overts, and move on trying to attain a state one tricks themselves into being.

Critics tend to make the assumption that Hubbard was intentionally conning people and therefore the critics are nasty and do a battle of wit. I believe Hubbard suffered from a mental condition where he could not see he was creating a con, and I believe he died thinking he was an immortal freeing homo sapien from the clutches of "Xenu's overt". Unfortunately, the tech. is full of very radical and destructive ideas that not only harm the freedom of humanity but challenge the governments of the world if executed with precision.

And unless it is stopped and truth is brought to light, every single one of those Scientologists will not know they are pursuing the hopes and dreams of a madman.

I hope you enjoyed this 13H, and I would like to see the concepts of Scientology evolve into a workable philosophy that is free.

[LETTER END]
----------------------

I hope this provides a little insight into the thought processes of Scilons. It will also explain why I get so pissy when i see anons acting angry while talking to their handlers.

- 13H

[quote]Critics tend to make the assumption that Hubbard was intentionally conning people and therefore the critics are nasty and do a battle of wit. I believe Hubbard suffered from a mental condition where he could not see he was creating a con...[UNQUOTE]

I disagree. He was a con man, pure and simple. "Make money, make more money, make others produce so as to make more money," is a quote from Hubbard that suggests the whole thing was nothing more than a sham designed to enrich his sorry, Vistaril-filled ass.

Accounts from his contemporaries touch on his massive abuse of drugs. He directs his followers to lie to further his goals of enrichment.

Greed and dishonesty, with a dash of charisma are clear indications of a con man.
For pete's sake! They sell you a bridge, and their logo is a double cross!

[quote=xenubarb;401952]

Critics tend to make the assumption that Hubbard was intentionally conning people and therefore the critics are nasty and do a battle of wit. I believe Hubbard suffered from a mental condition where he could not see he was creating a con...[UNQUOTE]

I disagree. He was a con man, pure and simple. "Make money, make more money, make others produce so as to make more money," is a quote from Hubbard that suggests the whole thing was nothing more than a sham designed to enrich his sorry, Vistaril-filled ass.

The letter is from someone who recently left the Cult. Regardless of anyone's personal feelings related LRH and his intentions, the above is the perception you're all going up against. It's important to understand the perceptions of those within the cult.

"Know your enemy"

Originally Posted by 13Heathens

The letter is from someone who recently left the Cult. Regardless of anyone's personal feelings related LRH and his intentions, the above is the perception you're all going up against. It's important to understand the perceptions of those within the cult.

"Know your enemy"

I've been out of the cult for 8 years. What I thought about Hubbard and Scn 8 years ago,
7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, and last year are all different. The longer one is out, the less indoctrinated
into the Scn mindfuck. Some take longer than others to strip themselves of the Hubbardthink, and some never get rid of it at all.

Many people don't understand the indoctrination or how it works. If you are at all
interested in the Scn indoc and why the Scios act so crazy then please take the
time to watch this video.

Internet Archive: Details: Boston Skeptics in the Pub -Patty Pieniadz 05/26/08

13Heathens,

I agree with you. No one is going to get anywhere with individual scilons by yelling at them or trying to humiliate them. This just assures them that what they've been told by the cult about Anonymous is true. I cringe everytime I see this happening.

I know the scilons have done this to WBM, Tory, etc.
They come off looking like crazy assholes. I don't think that's what we want to look like ourselves.

It took me a long time to come to the conclusion elron was totally conning everyone. I didn't want it to be true. But that isn't the issue here. The topic is the way we approach scilons.

Originally Posted by 13Heathens

A while ago I started hassling anons about their approach when dealing with Scientologists. Honestly at times I've wanted to reach through the computer and dope-slap the hell out of a few..

As I've always maintained, I am NOT anonymous... But since someone talked me into getting on here to see about getting some info for discrediting their study tech.. I thought it was finally time to let you know WHY I've been getting progressively more irritated with some of the aggressive tactics I've seen used in anon videos.

What follows is a letter which was sent to me from someone that defected from COS after a rather lengthy series of conversations.

-------------------------------------
[LETTER BEGINS]

Due to a few situations that have occurred recently, combined with a number of situations I rationalized as okay because of my former beliefs, I've chosen not to be a Scientologist.

Seeing things in this light, here is my opinion. Scientology praises self-determinism as opposed to other-determinism. However most Scientologists are other-determined and sacrifice their self-determinism at the door in order to further the goal of Scientology, which as a whole is self-determined. Put another way, this is mind-control.

Hubbard also praised responsibility. However the church, especially the concept of a case-supervisor, is set up to avoid responsibility should problems or upsets arrive.

The trap of Scientology is that so many of the concepts are beneficial and brilliant, but along the way it is very easy to abide by the party line that Hubbard was infallible and every piece of data he wrote was correct. In Scientology, if you disagree with Hubbard, it inevitably comes back to you being wrong or having committed a crime.

If you pick up a copy of 8-8008, it actually has a footnote that says too much Dianetic auditing is known to turn on the reactive mind without it turning off. In normal terms, this means too much Dianetic auditing causes insanity. Yet the church still sells the book.

While this can't be proven currently, I believe Hubbard suffered from a mental problem, was removed from the navy for a mental disability, and spent the rest of his life proving to the world he was right and mocking up certain characteristics of his enemies (fascist management characteristics). Hubbard was a genius and was of a higher class, thus making the whole process he undertook easier to sell.

In closing, the works of L. Ron Hubbard cover the biggest problems humanity faces. There are numerous concepts that have truth contained in them, that are beneficial. But with that, I believe Hubbard ingrained his own shortcomings into the collective technology, which was sealed with the policy of keeping scientology working (KSW).

The statistics of Scientology speaks for itself. If 20% of the population is evil, then how come the 80% do not stay in the organization or shun it? The answer is because Scientology is a cult that is running off of incorrect data, combined with enough true data and hope to rationalize its shortcomings.

I really wanted to believe LRH was right about everything. Seeing the truth has been a relief but luckily it hasn't been a loss. Self-determinism and responsibility are concepts that I will continue to better myself with and teach.

The major cognition I have understood is that Scientology sells you on the idea of yourself becoming a super being. In order to buy it, you have to have something to compare that state of awareness to. So what did I and people I know compare it to? Imaging the times in life when we were most cause, happy, and doing great. The sale occurs, when you start believing you can attain that state 24/7.

One only has to look at OT's, clears, and management people that have been on tv/dvd's to see that the reality and the dream is one created not by Hubbard but by believing one is making and reaching towards that dream (I.E. one believes, therefor one becomes. Now you know why these "OT powers" are never demonstrated, and why these OT's don't create the promised outcome that Hubbard envisioned).

This is why, when you are critical about Scientology to a Scientologist, the reaction is so severe. In essence, the person thinks you are trying to take away every good moment in their life with the possibility those moments will be a constant affair. And since the critics are angry about a human rights issue, obviously they are not going to be serene when talking about the danger. The subconscious logic of the Scientologist, is since this critic is not serene, they must be wrong. Then it's easy to label them suppressive, or PTS, hiding overts, and move on trying to attain a state one tricks themselves into being.

Critics tend to make the assumption that Hubbard was intentionally conning people and therefore the critics are nasty and do a battle of wit. I believe Hubbard suffered from a mental condition where he could not see he was creating a con, and I believe he died thinking he was an immortal freeing homo sapien from the clutches of "Xenu's overt". Unfortunately, the tech. is full of very radical and destructive ideas that not only harm the freedom of humanity but challenge the governments of the world if executed with precision.

And unless it is stopped and truth is brought to light, every single one of those Scientologists will not know they are pursuing the hopes and dreams of a madman.

I hope you enjoyed this 13H, and I would like to see the concepts of Scientology evolve into a workable philosophy that is free.

[LETTER END]
----------------------

I hope this provides a little insight into the thought processes of Scilons. It will also explain why I get so pissy when i see anons acting angry while talking to their handlers.

- 13H

This is one of the very best analyses I have ever seen posted.
It has a great insight and strong truthful summary.
This could be made into a flyer.
Impressive.

Originally Posted by exOT8Michael

This is one of the very best analyses I have ever seen posted.
It has a great insight and strong truthful summary.
This could be made into a flyer.
Impressive.

There had been more in the initial messages. That version has been modified twice. The first modification was by my contact after I asked permission to use it to help show anon how they are often perceived, and to provide some insight.

The second modification was made by 'RED' (a name familiar to those that have watched my videos). While preserving the context, I had her adjust the word usage and sentence structure slightly in order to remove any clues as to the senders identity. We all have distinctive styles while writing, so I felt it important to mask the senders identity in that regard.

I don't know how they'd feel about it being used as flier, however they did tell me that the copy (above) was at my disposal for distribution.. *shrug*

I'll leave that decision to the hoard.. However due to the content, I would advise anyone using it to remember to portray an air of 'serenity', otherwise the message will be lost. It should be allowed to speak for itself, and not a point of debate.

Just came across this. Much as I've admired your video series, 13heathens, I have to ask what the difference is between an overtly aggressive approach, and the sort of passive-aggressive 1:1 (in sci terms) mocking that you do in your own videos. Note that I don't think it's a bad thing, just that if you feel the former methods don't work, what makes you think yours will? You're taking the piss out of their messiah - how is that any less likely to entrench their uncritical belief?

The other side of it of course is that not all of us have conversion as our priority. I don't think you'll get many people out of it by the sort of activism we're engaged in. Some, but not many. What we can do on a large scale is innoculate people before they even think about joining up, and spread the meme of scientology as a danger in society.

Originally Posted by musketeerwang

You're taking the piss out of their messiah - how is that any less likely to entrench their uncritical belief?

Some, but not many. What we can do on a large scale is innoculate people before they even think about joining up, and spread the meme of scientology as a danger in society.

I absolutely agree that keeping people out of the orgs and increasing awareness is vital. Everyone is different, and there have been many who have left due to the influence of Anonymous. The message listed above was sent by someone that left and is there perspective.

Many of the more questionable aspects of the church can be seen in Hubbards on words and their insistence that the tech is perfect.

Getting all fired up about the crimes is fine and good for protesting purposes, however tactical modification while dealing with individual scilons may be appropriate. This is where having fundamental knowledge of their core material comes in handy. Hubbard makes some real crack pot claims.

That was an interesting read, thanks. I've been reading a lot of stories from ex-scientologists and I think I sort of "get" why people join and why they stay in the church.

As far as how Anon treats Scientologists, it really all depends on what Anonymous' goal is in this whole thing. We've been doing a good job informing the public and questioning the policies of CoS, but I don't think we've been doing a good job of getting through to Scientologists. The question is, do we want to? Will it even work? I guess everyone has different goals, and personally, if I had the chance to talk with a Scientologist I would take a gentle approach rather than yell at them about Xenu and Operation this and that. I think people also have a hard time separating the victims of Scientology from the people in Scientology to commit the crimes. When we're protesting and a random person walks into the org, we don't know if they're the head honcho or if they're a lowly staff member.

How to talk to a scientologist should be required reading for everyone who protests the church, because if you're dedicated to taking down the church and "saving" the victims, you have to know how the victims think.

Originally Posted by sinkingship

As far as how Anon treats Scientologists, it really all depends on what Anonymous' goal is in this whole thing. We've been doing a good job informing the public and questioning the policies of CoS, but I don't think we've been doing a good job of getting through to Scientologists. The question is, do we want to? Will it even work?

It won't work well, for sure. That's why it's a cult. We're not dealing with people who are prepared to think rationally and unemotionally about Scientology, and re-evaluate their position if they're given information that conflicts with their beliefs. If that were the case, they wouldn't have remained in the cult to begin with.

Still, even bad communication is still better than no communication. It's a lot easier to maintain your delusions in a vacuum.

In my opinion though, the main reason for debating/discussing Scientology with a Scientologist isn't for the sake of the Scientologist but for the sake of third parties. If/when a non-involved person sees/hears that kind of discussion, it'll be quite obvious to them who's right and who's wrong. (unless the critic is really horribly bad at it)