Leaving Scientology is hard to do - but I have to, thanks to Anonymous.

Originally Posted by flunkforlaughing

This is going to sound crazy, but I'm finding it hard to leave Scientology. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going back. I can't, not with what I know. Just being on this site, and on xenu.net, Glosslip Radio with Dawn Olsen, Tory Christman videos, Mark Bunker videos, and other sites have woken me up to what's really going on with Scientology. I found some things online like the ANDRE TABAYOYON AFFIDAVIT extremely disturbing. I had a hard time sleeping that night thinking about how an auditor in the Sea Org could actually reverse audit someone to mess them up before they routed out of the SO. How could anyone do that? That can't possibly be Scientology. It's not the Scientology I know.

I've been a Scn for 17 years (but not on course or in session for the last 3 years), so this is a big deal for me. Huge in fact. Life changing. Something to consider is the fact that I didn't have a bad experience that got me upset with the church, or declared, or Fair Gamed, or disconnected, or had a bad ethics cycle, or messed up auditing, or being held against my will on staff, or anything like that. There was no reason for me to leave the church. Over the years I had managed to make it 1/2 way to Clear, and through Pro Metering which was not easy. If I had a lot more time and a lot more money I would have done a lot more Scientology. My intention was to make it up to Class V Auditor and OT3. That was my future most definitely.

But in February 2008 everything changed. I got a very serious email from a fellow Scientologist. It was a link to the church video about the "facts" of the first Anonymous attacks in January. He was emailing everyone he knew to let them know about what was going on, so we could all stand united shoulder-to-shoulder and fight the fight against the SP's who are attacking our church.

It didn't work. It got me looking at other videos and asking lots of questions - all the wrong questions. For whatever reason I was able to break free from the automatic responses that had prevented me from looking for myself and making up my own mind about church criticism.

I saw the church video on YouTube, and then I watched all the other videos there on YouTube including the bad videos from the Anonymous SP's. I wanted to hear what Anonymous was saying so I could make up my own mind, to see if I thought there was any truth to it, or if it was nonsense. I started looking at other sites, and more videos, and more and more. What I saw shocked me to say the least. I could have looked online at any time, but it was the Anonymous protests that got me interested to look in February.

For me (and I'll bet other long-time Scientologists) it's going to take some time. I have a lot to sort out in my head. Scientology has been my "Stable Data" to handle the confusions of life for 17 yrs. Now my Stable Data has been shaken to the core. I find that very troubling to say the least. I can really relate to the "moment" that Jason Beghe has in his video, when he talks about being a past-life Clear. It's hard to describe the feelings associated with that, not that I've had a past-life-Clear moment, but I've had moments where I look back at it all and just wonder what the fuck happened. Was it all a joke? Was it all a scam? Was any of it real? Were my wins real? Was it all my imagination? Was it all mind-control? What's real anyway? Where do I go from here?

To realize that the Bridge To Total Freedom is quite possibly the Bridge to Total Enslavement is hard to describe. And to learn that the OT levels don't work - well that's shocking on a very deep level. To find out that Scientology is filled with mind-control and manipulation is very troubling indeed. To find out how corrupt the upper management is, especially David Miscaviage, is outrageous. It goes on and on. I didn't know any of this until 3 months ago. Ever since then I am obsessed with it, every day learning more online. Like I said, leaving Scientology is hard to do, but I have to, and I'm not completely comfortable with it yet.

________________

the one thing you can do to help the ones you care about is to tell your friends that are still "IN". they trust you to some extent. make every effort to inform them.

I totally know how you feel. It makes you realize how truly in the deep end you really were when finding it all crumbling around you, everything you thought you knew, everything you were waiting for, was false or never going to come... I especially know how you feel about the obsessed with finding out more and more thing. I was like this for the longest time and some nights didn't get a wink of sleep. It's been an anxiety ridden journey, but necessary. Finally, I'm starting to be able to "confront" it. :)
Right now, I'm still feeling more sad than I am relieved to have had to leave the COS, and come to my senses. Sad, only because all the hope is gone. I think that's the main problem with Scientologists not wanting to look at the other side of the story. It means all that they believe and all that they thought was true, all the answers they ever had, most, if not all of it, is false. And that's a difficult thing to admit, especially if you never experienced any of the "bad" stuff, like me, and like flunkforlaughing...
BTW, I love that handle, lol!

"Flunked for laughing" is an important thing to remember. There will be more happy times. If someone offers help, say "yes." And don't be afraid to get help.

I like the kind of support the ex-mormons (Recovery from Mormonism - the Mormon Church) give each other as they struggle to take back their lives from a cult. Seems to me that those leaving the Cult of Morbots have similar kinds of experiences to those leaving this and other cults.

Know that there are those who wish you well. Explore new interests. You have a big big life ahead and we want to see you at the next Anon demo. That will help.

All the best to you as your proceed with courage and new wisdom. Hate to sound like I'm from LA, but I am, and a support group would be a good thing. Trust must be hard though. Take good care of yourself, and you have a new community and somewhere within it are new best friends.

xo

Honestly, I'm just glad to hear you've woken up. You know the truth, you can avoid giving them any more money to fuel the footbullet machine, and that's what we're here for. Go ahead and live your life as you see fit. I hope to see you with an SP ballcap or a mask some day, but when that day is is for you to decide, and no one else.

FFL,

Thank you so much for posting here. Not only does it give you an outlet to express your feelings about leaving the Church, but it gives us in Anonymous hope and evidence that what we are doing isn't just for the lulz, and that it is working.

From the bottom of my heart I wish you good luck in getting out, and talking to your wife. I know it will be hard on her too. I would say be careful in getting out and not being declared, but you seem to be on top of things in that regard. And keep us posted as well.

Welcome to Enturb, and thank you for sharing your story. Like you, I also reached a point of no return and made the choice to leave my religion (not Sci), so I can relate to what you're going through. It's not easy, and it'll take time until you're happy with your decision, but that day will come.

It's good to know you're in touch with Tory, I'm sure she'll give you good advice.

I hope you can safely exit Sci and keep your family together. Please do keep us up to date.

Originally Posted by realscifag

I totally know how you feel. It makes you realize how truly in the deep end you really were when finding it all crumbling around you, everything you thought you knew, everything you were waiting for, was false or never going to come... I especially know how you feel about the obsessed with finding out more and more thing. I was like this for the longest time and some nights didn't get a wink of sleep. It's been an anxiety ridden journey, but necessary. Finally, I'm starting to be able to "confront" it. :)
Right now, I'm still feeling more sad than I am relieved to have had to leave the COS, and come to my senses. Sad, only because all the hope is gone. I think that's the main problem with Scientologists not wanting to look at the other side of the story. It means all that they believe and all that they thought was true, all the answers they ever had, most, if not all of it, is false. And that's a difficult thing to admit, especially if you never experienced any of the "bad" stuff, like me, and like flunkforlaughing...
BTW, I love that handle, lol!

realscifag, That is not true! Some things were real...the reason you got in was real...to help. You still want to help, right? Well, now you can just help in other ways. $cientology might be a bunch of crap but most of the people who got in it were good and true. It's the upper management that is rotten and other people just got in over their heads.

You really need to get over to ESMB. Read the threads there. Take your time and ask questions. It's not as black as you think!

Then come back in here and we will all make fun of you. Just kidding. We need you so we will try not to be too rough!

I have no doubt that you and FFL will both be fine.

And FFL, show your wife Lisa McPhersons' autopsy photos. Then have her read the story. Also the ex-scientology kids stuff. That would be a good start.

Best of luck to you both.

Originally Posted by flunkforlaughing

Hey, thanks for all the replies. It helps a lot. Tazor is right on - I need to keep my mouth shut around other Scientologists (like my boss at work and my wife at home). If I get declared, things turn ugly real fast for me, so no anti-Scientology talking and no protests or anything like that for me. I hope I can get through to my wife, and get her to honestly look at it. I think I can if given enough time. I'll start with her, and I'll let you know how it goes.

I'm not as familiar with Tori's skill set. I know for certain that Arnie Lerma -who is an ex scientologist- has many years of experience with "deprogramming" cult members. Lermanet.com: Exposing the Con of Scientology

Good luck. Also,

_________________

verifies the end of someones post and the beginning of their signature. You can create your own somewhere in the User CP. But then you have to click [show signature] when you post and Holy Fuck the Effort.

unrelated: I hate xenubarb and Ten Tigers for taking the obvious joke before I could do it.

Originally posted by tazor:
And FFL, show your wife Lisa McPhersons' autopsy photos. Then have her read the story. Also the ex-scientology kids stuff. That would be a good start.

With all due respect, that's the sort of thing that wouldn't work, and here's why (so you can understand what's going on in a Scientologist's mind).

Before 3 months ago, when I came across a shockingly bad Scn news story, I would immediately dismiss it. This is the automatic response that is somehow programmed into a Scientologist. I don't know if it's mind-control, or brain-washing, or light-hypnotism, or just simple mental conditioning, but whatever it is, it prevents them from seeing & hearing the bad news. They don't have the ablility to really LOOK at the data and DECIDE on their own. They immediately assume it's the enemy (whatever enemy Scn has at the moment, like Anon or the Psychs or the Drug Companies, or whoever). The more shocking it is, the more they dismiss it as enemy propaganda, so the Lisa McPherson photo wouldn't work for that reason.

To be effective with long-term Scientologists, I think you have to show them small and easy-to-accept pieces of the puzzle.

What happened to me, without going into too much detail, was that I had a chance to work closely with the Hubbard Management Technology. After many months of applying it in business the best I could, I had to come to the conclusion that some parts are good but some parts are really wrong.

The Admin Tech as it's called doesn't work 100% as they claim. In fact, I saw clear examples of where it got in the way of production and business growth. This by the way is the same tech that they are using to run the Orgs (into the ground). For example, requiring all staff members to be upstat from the week prior forces staff members & executives to be very short sighted, where everyone is only thinking of this week and not long term. Also it encourages false stats, or junk stats, where someone is working for a stat number as opposed to doing a good job where it matters. You get footbullets from this alone.

Well anyway, discovering that the Tech didn't work was a big shock to me. It wasn't me (my misunderstandings, or my overts/withholds). It was the Tech, and the Admin Tech was bad. This actually happened middle of last year, and it was the first crack in the Truman Show for me.

Then all this stuff hit me the last 3 months with Anonymous. I have taken in LOTS of information. It basically comes down to two basic problems. 1. The top Scn management, starting with David Miscavige, is corrupt, criminal, and has altered the Scn Tech. What we have now is not the same Scientology as LRH intended it. 2. Scientology doesn't work even in pure unaltered form as LRH wrote it.

I think whatever a Scn listens to, either 1 or 2, it has to be on a simple light gradient. I think it would be impossible for a long-term Scn to quickly get the idea that all the Tech doesn't work. It's much easier for them to see that a small part doesn't work over here, and another small part doesn't work over there, and management did a bad thing over here, and management did a bad thing over there. I think small bite sized pieces over time will work the best to get a long-term Scientologist to get out.

By the way, some days for me are better than others. Yesterday I had all these thoughts bottled up inside me that I had to post to get them out of my head. It helped. Reading your replies helped a lot too. Today I feel better. I even laughed a few times too.

Are you able to talk openly with your wife without her getting freaked out?
Will she feel the need to report it? I really feel for you. Take it slow and get her on your side, first. You don't want to take the chance of having to leave with her still in. Ugh, they have traps set at every possible route of escape.

Originally Posted by flunkforlaughing

Hey, thanks for all the replies. It helps a lot. Tazor is right on - I need to keep my mouth shut around other Scientologists (like my boss at work and my wife at home). If I get declared, things turn ugly real fast for me, so no anti-Scientology talking and no protests or anything like that for me. I hope I can get through to my wife, and get her to honestly look at it. I think I can if given enough time. I'll start with her, and I'll let you know how it goes.

_______________________

Goodness, you've got immediate family members in it? That must be difficult. And extremely tricky.

This is just imo, since I don't have any experience in counseling but;

Lisa McPherson is not a good way to go, imo. It's got shock value, but it's also got easily dismissable value if you are not that well read up on how Scientology treats medical illness. It's too explosive, going full force into actively denouncing something someone believes in strongly will cause strain in your marriage, cause her to react strongly and possibly go to her friends to help her with shock. Friends goes to CoS- and then she will then be forced to handle or disconnect.

You need to plant subtle truths. Not all people who are critics are bad. People get mislabeled SPs all the time. The tech does not always work. There are ways to fool the emeter. Scientology encourages negligence.

People who go into CoS are neither stupid nor ill intentioned. Many times they join to help themselves or truly believe they are helping the world. There are issues your wife feels strongly about- which one contradicts the tech? She came in for self improvement- is the tech really making her better or is she giving in exhaustive amounts of money, time, and effort while grasping onto the idea of the one or two wins she had awhile back? Because, it's time to face the fact; it never gets better. Does she believe it will strengthen bonds- why is disconnection practiced (here would be a great time to show some videos of how people were disconnected)? Is she soft hearted to the problems of others? The stories of seaorg can outrage anyone.

Just, in general, communicate with her. It might be a good idea to get you two solidly into another activity. Something enjoyable, with real results, that can also build community. Take dancing lessons, go skiing, join a club, take extra lessons at a college/community college and learn a new language, do some home improvement, or even do some community service like help at soup kitchens. Anything that will help you put a solid footing back into society and invest in self outside of CoS.

Life without scientology is NOT empty. You've shaken your constraints and while it might feel like there's little left- what you've really got is the whole world in front of you.

Originally posted by realscifag
I totally know how you feel. It makes you realize how truly in the deep end you really were when finding it all crumbling around you, everything you thought you knew, everything you were waiting for, was false or never going to come... I especially know how you feel about the obsessed with finding out more and more thing. I was like this for the longest time and some nights didn't get a wink of sleep. It's been an anxiety ridden journey, but necessary. Finally, I'm starting to be able to "confront" it. :)
Right now, I'm still feeling more sad than I am relieved to have had to leave the COS, and come to my senses. Sad, only because all the hope is gone. I think that's the main problem with Scientologists not wanting to look at the other side of the story. It means all that they believe and all that they thought was true, all the answers they ever had, most, if not all of it, is false. And that's a difficult thing to admit, especially if you never experienced any of the "bad" stuff, like me, and like flunkforlaughing...
BTW, I love that handle, lol!

I think you make a good point. When you go from Scientology to nothing, it's hard. I think that's why I'm obsessed with looking online for everything I can find. It's filling the void.

I think the solution is to get something new to replace Scientology. If I would go from Scientology to let's say Budhism for example, then I could spend my time doing Budhism, whatever that is, with a new sense of hope and purpose. I have some things in my carreer that can take the place of Scn, but for now being obsessed with online Scn info is where I'm at.

You can learn to shoop pics in your free time!....
I admire your courage.
Stay safe....

Originally Posted by Anonabliss

Are you able to talk openly with your wife without her getting freaked out?
Will she feel the need to report it? I really feel for you. Take it slow and get her on your side, first. You don't want to take the chance of having to leave with her still in. Ugh, they have traps set at every possible route of escape.

I am not too sure at this point. It would surprise me if she reported me. I really don't think she would do it, unless I got into a big argument with her and told her I want nothing more to do with Scientology and it was filled with drama and yelling and things like that. Then she would probably get mad and write me up so the Org could "handle" me in Ethics. As long as I stay away from that scenario and keep good communication with her I think I will be fine. I think it's best to tell her I'm having problems with the Management Technology not working. I can give her clear examples. Then I can go from there.