Is our cults learning?

Just a thought here, but it seems the Co$ has learned some rudiments of "defense" (as in passive-aggressive trap-laying) and are making it their primary method of dealing with us, since direct confrontation isn't working. Bluntly, Anonymous versus Scientology has settled down into a battle of attrition. From their point of view, it's who will last longer - and they may be betting on the current economic downturn (and on top of that, point to the numbers at the monthly protests as "proof" we're growing disinterested) to do more damage to us than them.

Mostly, though, the cult is betting on a strategy of "DO IT, FAGGOT" in order to get us to do something stupid or illegal that they can hammer us on.

It's a solid strategy, and a good one for an organization with a bank balance as fat as theirs. So how to counter it, and increase the amusement value of Chanology at the same time?

Now we can't give up the monthly protests. We wouldn't want them to feel unloved, and they're fun for us.

It's a good idea to keep up the flashraids (at least to a dull roar), even though they've adapted to them to some degree. In thinking about it, though, they prevent the Co$ from reasserting its former presence in their neighborhoods via flyering and tables, which has got to chap somebody's ass and amuse the hell out of the neighborhood at the same time.

My major point is based on one thing: we haven't gotten anywhere by being stable and predictable. We haven't accomplished one thing by making our future plans in rigid, stable patterns. So, as has been suggested here previously, WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THE LAW, any Co$ related event, or any event held by an organization which does anything connected to the Co$ (Hancock movie showing, anyone? Diskeeper booth at a trade show? An ACA conference to raise awareness of Criminon's ties to the Co$? (here's a handy list for the latter American Correctional Association (ACA): Conferences and Workshops ) is a legitimate target for a flashraid. I know we're doing this occasionally, but right now our activities at the orgs should be for our own lulz and nothing else, since we've probably saturated the nearby areas with our message.

I would suggest being careful and being courteous to local law enforcement and the people who own nearby homes and places of business - but otherwise, it may be time for our brand of lulz to spread even more than it already has. Not only that, but going to places unfamiliar with us we stand a better chance of getting more people interested in joining us!

Again, I know other people have said this; just adding my voice.

tl;dr: Right now the orgs are a red cape, and we're the bull. They're just waiting for us to be stupid so they can stick us with the pointy little sword. It may be time to take our unique brand of obnoxiousness and export it to new markets.

This is a good thought. Another good idea is random flier raids. Pick a neighborhood and douse them with the anti-sci/anti-dianetics fliers (lamp post, porches, etc), random chalk raids, just chalk a giant anti-sci mural in your downtown.

Randomness is our greatest weapon, but as you pointed out, our greatest weakness as well.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

This is a good thought. Another good idea is random flier raids. Pick a neighborhood and douse them with the anti-sci/anti-dianetics fliers (lamp post, porches, etc), random chalk raids, just chalk a giant anti-sci mural in your downtown.

Randomness is our greatest weapon, but as you pointed out, our greatest weakness as well.

Intelligently and liberally applied randomness FTW.

The only way that the "DO IT, FAGGOT" tactic would ever work would be for someone stupid enough to go do something on their own, which can easily be pointed out as "not representing Anonymous". Due to the nature of Anonymous (questioning, researching, picking apart, etc. everything we do as a group in order to determine if consequences are win or fail), Anonymous as a whole or even a small group is not likely to fall for it. More randomness is good, though.

tl;dr Anons aren't going to do something stupid if someone says "DO IT, FAGGOT!"

Like any top down organization with a ruthless "hands on" leader, the learning curve is probably a direct reflection of the orders / mind / thinking of Micavige as moderated / added to by whoever it is he "trusts" in terms of acting as his sounding board. It would be useful to know who he relies upon for advice. Surely it can't be Cruise, but they are supposed to be best buddies and Cruise knows everything by virtue of his master of the tech.

They learn, but it's really slow and not very flexible or responsive to stimulus. We have obviously had to hold the flame to their feet for a very long time for them to notice the temperature and changes their posture. It's nice they can learn, let us hope the learn the right lessons and make such radical change that none of this is necessary.

Personally, I doubt they've the strength of character or a solid enough foundation in dogma / belief sets to recognize their own corruption and work for massive change.

Originally Posted by SomeOldGuy

Just a thought here, but it seems the Co$ has learned some rudiments of "defense" (as in passive-aggressive trap-laying) and are making it their primary method of dealing with us, since direct confrontation isn't working. Bluntly, Anonymous versus Scientology has settled down into a battle of attrition. From their point of view, it's who will last longer - and they may be betting on the current economic downturn (and on top of that, point to the numbers at the monthly protests as "proof" we're growing disinterested) to do more damage to us than them.

Mostly, though, the cult is betting on a strategy of "DO IT, FAGGOT" in order to get us to do something stupid or illegal that they can hammer us on.

It's a solid strategy, and a good one for an organization with a bank balance as fat as theirs. So how to counter it, and increase the amusement value of Chanology at the same time?

Now we can't give up the monthly protests. We wouldn't want them to feel unloved, and they're fun for us.

It's a good idea to keep up the flashraids (at least to a dull roar), even though they've adapted to them to some degree. In thinking about it, though, they prevent the Co$ from reasserting its former presence in their neighborhoods via flyering and tables, which has got to chap somebody's ass and amuse the hell out of the neighborhood at the same time.

My major point is based on one thing: we haven't gotten anywhere by being stable and predictable. We haven't accomplished one thing by making our future plans in rigid, stable patterns. So, as has been suggested here previously, WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THE LAW, any Co$ related event, or any event held by an organization which does anything connected to the Co$ (Hancock movie showing, anyone? Diskeeper booth at a trade show? An ACA conference to raise awareness of Criminon's ties to the Co$? (here's a handy list for the latter American Correctional Association (ACA): Conferences and Workshops ) is a legitimate target for a flashraid. I know we're doing this occasionally, but right now our activities at the orgs should be for our own lulz and nothing else, since we've probably saturated the nearby areas with our message.

I would suggest being careful and being courteous to local law enforcement and the people who own nearby homes and places of business - but otherwise, it may be time for our brand of lulz to spread even more than it already has. Not only that, but going to places unfamiliar with us we stand a better chance of getting more people interested in joining us!

Again, I know other people have said this; just adding my voice.

tl;dr: Right now the orgs are a red cape, and we're the bull. They're just waiting for us to be stupid so they can stick us with the pointy little sword. It may be time to take our unique brand of obnoxiousness and export it to new markets.

thanks!

I suggest making an impact Scientologist by scientologist.

Guaranteed when Marc Headley talked to the DSA staffer in training at Hollywood, caught in the excellent Youtube clips "Scientologist speaks out" Marc Headley left that lady with some serious questions that are in her head.

My goal was get the former members confronting the worst behind the scenes stuff.

The petty violence atmosphere in the top ranks, around David Miscavige, needs to cease.

I think messages that mention David Miscavige, his serious downside behavior, ARE ones that will sink right to the core of the most important viciousness of Scientology, the dark stuff that IS controllable, and David Miscavige needs to be backed OFF of the vicious out of control violent (petty as it is) internally, at the core top ranks of the movement.

When public are forced to face the facts that the top ranks of the movement are NOT as nice as they dream, but that David Miscavige (and earlier Hubbard) in the last several decades of the movement's history have continued to drive the movement by threats, internally, THAT needs to be constantly exposed.

I don't think Scientology is going to shatter into a million pieces, because Hubbard's prolific writings are capable of smothering the rationality of a certain number of under educated people who are NOT swayed by Hubbard's bad writing and offensive pompous hype that reeks of "con" (the word Scientology just reeks of conscious pretentiousness and feigned legitimacy to most normal people).

My thoughts are constantly focus, or at least constantly mention the worst of Scientology's ongoing legacy of abominations, so that the movement members are constantly made to question WHY their movement perpetrates these abominable actions.

The top staff ranks violence, is MY biggest beef. It has to stop, and the movement HAS to stop that combative atmosphere at Gilman Hot Springs where David Miscavige is unchecked in his disgraceful periodic viciousness.

Jeff Hawkins' photo, I think should be blown up and be a POSTER/SIGN at every future anonymous demonstration:
http://www.dropthebomb.info/protest1/IMG_0134.jpg

I think several of the sentences in Marc Headley's radio interviews should be quoted, on signs, about the violence he personally received.

THAT sinks in.

The raw info of the ex members, the abominable recent years behavior, the raw truth, needs to be spoken to the Scientologists who listen.

Tell them what Marc Headley and Jeff Hawkins said in their radio interviews.

Show the Scientologists the Jeff Hawkins photo!

THAT sticks in the Scientologists' minds.

The Scientologsts are afraid to read the internet.

The Scientologists have to be ordered to look on the internet and read the firsthand stories of the ex members speaking up:

Larry Brennan's interviews
Marc Headley's interviews
Jeff Hawkins' interviews
Maureen Smith Bolstad's interviews.
Bruce Hines TV clips

The most recent ex Gilman Hot Springs staff raw info needs to be repeated!

That has to be faced.

These ex members are NOT lying.

THAT forces Scientology to face the facts!

That's my two cents.

It's been my purpose since working with the lady who set up this site for getting ex Int staff to write for the history books, it's been my purpose to get the truth on the ground at the Int Base flushed into the public domain, for the purpose of at least STOPPING this disgraceful combative irreligious atmosphere at the top ranks of the Scientology movement.

PLEASE get signs containing this info!

IT IMPINGES, and it is secretly interesting to Scientologists, because those Scientologists sense that the truth is being hidden from them!!!

The truth is hidden from them!

Headley, Hawkins, Brennan, Peeler, Smith, Jenna Miscavige and others ARE EXPOSING the behind the scenes stuff.

The rank and file Scientologist need to hear this!!!

Scientology - Ex-INT Base Staff Interrogatory - Interviews

3. At the time you left INT Base, had physical and screaming fits in general lessened? When was the last time you saw red-faced screaming and desk pounding irrational execs, etc.?

[ex staffer Chuck Beatty’s answer to the above question]

“I don't know. I know it lessened in PAC. In my 7 years on the Int and PAC RPFs, at no time did the PAC RPF I/C of the Int RPF I/C lose their temper like the CMO Int missionaires could do back in the 80's. Worst case screaming exec was Jeff Walker. I never had seen Jeff get mad at Flag in the 70's at the FLB. It was not until I was in RTRC (Ron's Tech Research and Compilations Officer, Senior C/S Office, CMO Int), when I saw Jeff scream at the various RTRC staff one by one, for screwing up. I finally was the target for a mere two screamings, and my third screaming never came. I got RPFed as I harbored intentions of smashing Jeff in the head with my tape dispenser the next time he screamed at me, and the 3rd screaming never came. I went to the RPF.

“If you possess evil purposes seriously, and are apt to whack someone, they PRF you on the spot, especially if you are going to whack one of the top execs who are doing the screaming. Jeff got RPFed himself about 6 weeks later, and then another 6 weeks later my RPFing got cancelled, rightfully so. Jeff never swung at anyone. But he sure levelled people with his screaming. I couldn't stand it, it was too much for me. No matter what the good things are about the Int Base, the comraderie, the tight production and high work ethic, the pride of working in such a well organized activity, getting screamed at like that, was unnerving for me. I'm glad he made it out of there though. Since once Jeff was busted, there was no future for him in the movement. It is better that they let people go.

“The whole experience, though, of going up to the top echelons, getting into abusive relationships, getting into these predicaments where unusually tense and irrational behavior erupts almost weekly and for sure monthly, blowups here and there in people's lives under the strain of the pressure of the working circumstances, the mindset to be 'kickass', and also the condoning of this warlike combativeness between staff (the Flag Order where LRH says an MAA is not to penalize either of two staff members who are fighting, but only bill the one who physically damages the other one), that type of 'freedom' that LRH allowed staff, in their daily encounters with each other, encourages and holds in place a violent undercurrent which I don't think you would expect to see at the top echelons of any religion in the world. That type of underlying violent combative spirit existed in the 80's and 90's (I observed it between two Gold staff in 96), and I am sure it persists today. That is just insane in my opinion to allow that and not organizationally develope saner inter-staff behavior minus the combative screaming and punching, etc.

“That's why we have sports. If you were to take some blindfolded wogs and let them eavesdrop on RTRC office when Jeff Walker was screaming, there is no way they'd discern that RTRC was the office where Ron Hubbard's written works were compiled, edited and issued. I have no idea if this office screaming is still prevalent, and how prevalent it is at the Int Base. “

Chuck Beatty,
ex staffer (1975-2003) Scientology “established cult”
412-260-1170, Pittsburgh

PS: “established cult” is the category scholar Lorne Dawson placed Scientology into, page 31 of his great book, “Comprehending Cults”, 1998, Oxford University Press.

Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA (anyone call me anytime!)
Chuck Beatty: Internet Posts
Flickr Photo Download: ITO 1981
From the outside, looking in
Buffalo Picket - Chuck Beatty Talks to Press
http://tinyurl.com/ywhgaf
GlossLip GLOSSLIP RADIO: April 13, 9:00-11:00PM EST, Operation Reconnect - Guests Ex-Scientologists Michael Pattinson, Chuck Beatty

I mentioned Jeff Walker's screaming, realize that Jeff Walker is NOT the same person as Jeff Hawkins in the photo in the above posting by me.

Jeff Hawkins was a marketing executive in the movement.

Jeff Walker was a spiritual tech senior executive in the movement.

Jeff Walker had the screaming temper tantrums at times, and I spoke of my tiny number of moments hearing Jeff Walker lose control (intentionally due to the condoning atmosphere for this level of executive screaming, all traceable to Hubbard's rules for senior execs in the movement and also base on Hubbard's personal bad role model example of losing control and venting on subordinates, including Hubbard's own petty violence, throttling Mike Douglas and pummeling Otto Roos, and Jeff Walker was a contemporary in the Sea Org during the Apollo years when Hubbard roared his irrational tyrades aboard the Apollo vessel).

Chuck Beatty
Pittsburgh

Think tank. Think tank. Not chit-chat.

Ideas off the wall, to keep our randomness up.

Stay on target.

Any chalk art fags out there to draw a huge xenu.net mural with Lord Xenu and LRH in your downtowns?

IMO it's all about reaching the largest number of people with the message that Co$ is dangerous. And targeting those who have a high stake in Co$- related areas.

Flash raids are most fun and most effective when they reach a large group of people. Whether that's at an org or elsewhere, my suggestion would be to try to reach as many people as possible.

While anything related to Co$ can arguably be a target, IMO a movie showing is less of a target than, say, a Narconon facility in one's town. If Anon persuades someone to see Wall-E instead of Hancock, a portion of their $8 admission fee is diverted from Co$ coffers (via Will Smith). If Anon persuades a dentist to stop using Hubbard management techniques, a direct payment of several hundred dollars to Co$ is directly diverted.

OTOH every little bit helps. I certainly wouldn't discourage someone from raiding a Hancock showing. But for people interested in bigger, more longranging projects, cutting off income is better done more direct sources of income for the Co$. If an organization is giving money to the Co$ via its front groups, shouldn't they at least be urged to ask where their money goes?

There are plenty of anons who live in cities that don't have raids.
hell there isn't even 1 org in my home province :D

Put these too good use, on spreading our message via the internet, talking about it with friends etc...
I'd say only about 3% of anonymous members have the opportunity to protest. due to the above mentioned factors.

What I do to help Project Chanology is trying to get the word out to everyone I know. Post comments on you tube, Just participate as an internet citizen, were already making lots of headway against Co$

Is our cults learning?

NO! ThATS WHY they FAIL!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Think tank. Think tank. Not chit-chat.

Ideas off the wall, to keep our randomness up.

Stay on target.

Any chalk art fags out there to draw a huge xenu.net mural with Lord Xenu and LRH in your downtowns?

We did once, but...well, Clearwater does not like chalk, apparently. We were asked not to do it again and have far too good a relationship with our police to jeopardize it by redrawing chalklongcat.

Originally Posted by SomeOldGuy

Just a thought here, but it seems the Co$ has learned some rudiments of "defense" (as in passive-aggressive trap-laying) and are making it their primary method of dealing with us, since direct confrontation isn't working.

"The DEFENSE of anything is untenable. The only way to defend anything is to ATTACK, and if you ever forget that, then you will lose every battle you are engaged in, whether it is in terms of personal conversations, public debate, or a court of law." HCOPL 3 Feb 1969, "Public Image"

Of course OSA will take advantage of any blunders Anons make, but the cult never ever ever plays a purely defensive game. You are playing against an opponent who will not wait for the fight to come to them but is actively plotting how to strike a "killing blow" against Anonymous, and in the meantime disable, hinder & discourage as many Anons as possible. It's an open question as to how capable they are of pulling off a major Op, but I guarantee you they are putting as much effort into it as they are able.