SciFAQ (Questions from scientologists)

SciFAQs

I know OSA might read this, but I don’t care, I have anything to hide rather I’d like them to read this and ask themselves these questions.

I noticed at the last protest, that the Scilons, instead of staying indoors, filming us through the curtains, have now taken to the streets in an attempt plant seeds of doubt in the heads of individual anons, in a form of mild and manipulative bull baiting. Please mark that these are not low ranking members, they are most likely OSA members who have had a very thorough training in rhetoric and communication. They have also been trained in keeping up a façade at all costs, and though you must always remain polite, don’t be afraid to speak up and demand that he or she answer your questions if you feel you are being manipulated or lied to.

It is said that a good speech or argument is composed of 3 parts:

Pathos:
Plays on emotions, personal stories, and a set of common moral values: A scientologist might try to say: “You’re deeply offending me by portraying my religions as a cult.” Or “My brother who was an alcoholic got out of his abuse due to Narconon. It saved his life.”

Logos:

Plays on logical evidence that is hard to disprove. Example: Statistics proof that Scientology works, we have 8 million members and are the fastest growing religion in the world, Narconon has scientifically proven effect.

Ethos:

Ethos is the credibility of a speaker, a person might claim to be a doctor, to have studied a subject for a long time, or come from the same background as you. Scientologists will say that are legally a religion because they have the court’s word for it, that other religions have done worse things, and that they basically have the same moral code as you do (Youth for human rights, citizen’s commission for human rights etc)

They might also try a reversed Ethos, nullifying the good intentions of anonymous by claiming we are cyber terrorists, have threatened them, are just as bad etc

SciFAQ:

Q: Your signs are so offensive to me, they claim my religion is a cult/sect.
A: Our intentions are not to offend but to educate. If you look up the definitions of a cult, Scientology fits them perfectly. A charismatic leader, a tightly controlled management, the cult’s goals are regarded above the wellbeing of its members, harsh dealings with its critics, indoctrination, and a secret religious doctrine only for the initiated. (If Scientology is not classified as a religion in your country point to that, if it is, point to the fact that it only got so by harassing the IRS.) We don’t mind the religious canon, only the organisation.

Q: I have been helped by Scientology, so have my family, friends, loved ones.
A: Kudos to you, we’re happy for you. We are only here because a lot of people have claimed otherwise and are not heard. The RPF, the abuse in sea org, the indoctrination. Scientology has a proven history of harassment, blackmailing, infiltration of governments, mysterious deaths of its members etc

Q: Our religion has a scientific basis.
A: Sorry but no. Dianetics was early on declared a hoax: "attention to the fact that these claims are not supported by empirical evidence of the sort required for the establishment of scientific generalizations." The American Psychological Association, 1950. Narconon aswell: "parents of drug addicts were paying heavy monthly fees to Narconon, which advertised itself as a drug rehabilitation and cure centre, but getting nothing in return." An Italian investigation in 1989. Ask yourself whether it is healthy to sit in a sauna for hours, being pumped full of vitamins and being subjected to a cold turkey which every sane doctor would say is life threatening.

Q: Why are you protesting us? There are so many others courses that could use your dedication.
A: You’re right; however that does not legitimize your abuse of human rights. There are also awareness groups for Epidermolysis Bullosa, which is a rare but also very deadly hereditary disease. Should they abandon their cause to fight more urgent things like AIDS, starvation, cancer or raptor attacks? We are also not a charity organisation, and though we as individuals might support amnesty international or red cross, our goal is simply to spread awareness.

Q: You don’t seem to know a lot about Scientology, have you read a book by Hubbard?
A: Yes, I found it interesting but it does not relate to the fact that Cos has a proven criminal record. Or: No I haven’t, but I find some of his policy letters to be more interesting, especially those regarding SPs, and RPF.

Q: Did you know Lisa McPherson? Why do you care about her?
A: I don’t need to know someone to feel for that person, just as I don’t need to know the victims of 9/11 to feel for them.

Q: Lisa died because a car accident, can’t you come up with something better?
A: No, she died because of a pulmonary embolism caused by bed rest and dehydration. Scientology sued the coroner for defamation and hired private detectives to spy on her until she changed her claims. Scientology also never won the civil case, just blurred the facts enough for them to be able to settle it out of court. Look at Lisa’s autopsy photos and tell me she wasn’t mistreated. Besides she is not the only Scientologist to have died. How about Joesephus Havernith and Heribert Pfaff, or Noah Littick who jumped off a building, clutching the last $ that the church hadn’t taken from him?

Q: Anonymous has harassed the church, send death threats, and stalked parishioners.
A: Please, if you have proof that any anonymous member has harassed you, tell the police, get a court order, tell the media. I can tell you however, that no anonymous here wishes to hurt any scientologists physically, yet you have threatened us with lawsuits despite your lack of any evidence.

Please feel free to comment on this or add your own SciFAQs

I also recommend people become as familiar with their "handling" tactics as possible. Whenever I catch one of them using one of these tactics, I like to call them out on it to make sure and let them know I am well aware of their strategy and not waste time trying that shit. I learned a lot early on from here The Scientology sect vs. Internet

Scientologists construct their responses very carefully to avoid technically lying while completely avoiding the truth. Pay attention and call them out any time they attempt to be "slippery" with their phrasing (they really HATE getting caught).

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"Q: Your signs are so offensive to me, they claim my religion is a cult/sect."
Your FACE is offensive to me!
Seriously, though. They find our signs offensive, well, we find the "Church" of Scientology offensive. We'll take take our signs down if they take the CoS down. I call that a fair trade.

"Q: I have been helped by Scientology, so have my family, friends, loved ones."
Well, I have been helped by Psychiatry, so have my family, friends, loved ones.

"Q: Our religion has a scientific basis."
Well, maybe it was "inspired" by scientific basis, but it appears many creative liberties have been taken.

"Q: Why are you protesting us? There are so many others courses that could use your dedication."
True, but just because we've got all kinds of crazy things going on in the world doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to the dangers lurking in our own back yards.

"Q: You don’t seem to know a lot about Scientology, have you read a book by Hubbard?"
Similar answer: I have found many interesting insights and ideas in his writing, but none of it justifies the abuses of the CoS.

"Q: Lisa died because a car accident, can’t you come up with something better?"
That's funny, I've never heard of cockroach bites being caused by car accidents. (They seem to always gloss right over that part when telling their fairytale version.)

"Q: Anonymous has harassed the church, send death threats, and stalked parishioners."
Pics or it didn't happen.

Other all too common debating points (usually brought up on comment boards and refuted time and time again):

"If you guys are right about all this stuff, why hasn't the government/FBI/CIA etc. stepped in to do something about it yet?"

"All the people involved in snow white and freak-out have already been dealt with."

"Why be so cowardly with the masks? Don't want to have to take responsibility for your actions?"

"Yeah, but what about all the OTHER religions..."

"You have been fooled by the lies of a few malcontent former members."

Sci: we do so much for literacy and to get people off drugs
Anon: Those are front groups for recruiting. While many Scientologists truly believe they are helping humanity,their actions and goodwill are being manipulated by squirelled tech.
Sci: We are here to help
Anon: And your ultimate goal is to overthrow the Constitution and replace it with Scientology, removing anyone who disagrees with you

Saw a glimpse of this at Birmingham in March.

Definitely a tactic to be aware of, and to be prepared for.

"You have been fooled by the lies of a few malcontent former members."

Do you know of any former members who aren't malcontent?

"Why be so cowardly with the masks? Don't want to have to take responsibility for your actions?"

We're doing nothing wrong in these protests, legally or morally. The Co$ still has a Fair Game policy, even though the use of the term "Fair Game" was cancelled - have you read those PLs? Quite interesting stuff. (Hand Scilon a copy of Fair Game PL and the one cancelling use of the term.) ALT: Tell you what: I'll take off my mask, if you give me your home phone, bank PIN, Social Security number, etc. No? Well, that's the same reason I'm not taking off my mask.

"All the people involved in snow white and freak-out have already been dealt with."

Not true! LRH himself was named an unindicted co-conspirator - meaning he was a part of Snow White but was not tried. (Had he fled the country yet? I'm not sure.)

"Yeah, but what about all the OTHER religions..."

Religion? What religions can you name that have their own investigative branch? What about their own private navy, work camp, or cruise ship? What religions charge - charge - X number of dollars per hour for counseling? I can't name any, but I know of a dangerous cult of two...

"If you guys are right about all this stuff, why hasn't the government/FBI/CIA etc. stepped in to do something about it yet?"

I don't have that data, but I would assume they ARE doing something about it. The FBI website says there are about 2,500 references to LRH and COS within its files. (Is that right? Is it pages, or references? P.S., you should probably use that phrase I bolded.)

"If you guys are right about all this stuff, why hasn't the government/FBI/CIA etc. stepped in to do something about it yet?"

They try, during Snow white fx they arrested 11 people, including Hubbard’s wife. Hubbard himself was sentenced to 4 years but fled the scene and died in exile. Scientology does however have an enormous legal team (so much for where your money goes) so they can drag out a case for eternity or settle it outside court. Al Capone was never sentenced for anything but tax evasion mind you.

"All the people involved in snow white and freak-out have already been dealt with."

Then why does the church continue to raise controversies to this day? Also why is that statement not available on your website, that you have had issues in the past but have now reformed into a benign church, and that your founder was a criminal?

"Why be so cowardly with the masks? Don't want to have to take responsibility for your actions?"

Why be so cowardly and sue everyone who raises a voice against you?

"Yeah, but what about all the OTHER religions..."

Other religions have largely come to terms with their past, the Catholic church has apologized, and as for the Muslims, terrorism is the acts of sectarian groups. Not a central management as in your case. But we’re talking about YOU!

"You have been fooled by the lies of a few malcontent former members."

If it had only been a few incoherent stories, yes. But there are waves upon waves of stories from all over the world telling the same stories of Xenu, of lies, manipulation, greed etc. Have they all gone together and agreed upon telling the same lie? Why would that make sense?

Also if they won’t go away and you feel they are just there to disturb you with the same questions and insults, there is a very good technique for getting rid of them: Simply wait till there are enough people around you and say very loudly: “BUT THAT STILL DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE USE OF CONCENTRATION CAMPS!” A scilon stalked us to the subway and but ran off as soon as my fellow anon said that.

This is a very good thread. Worth a sticky IMHO.

You can bet the scientologists have done something similar. I'm sure they've compiled a list of our most common debating points in order to prepare some carefully constructed responses.
They still suck ass at it though.

PRF should be RPF, Rehabilitation Project Force.

While its true that many of those directly responsible for snow white have bean dealt with the Organisation and its founder never were, or at least they hadnt up till now.
Then we have Mr Tom Cruise, telling us "we are the authoritys, why ask permission ?"

the Organisation responsible for snow white is the same organisation who according to its "mouth piece" doesnt need permission because they are the Authoritys.........


its Well overdue for this Organisation to be taken down

for the good of its followers, and for the good of mankind

Wut about "everything you've read on the internet is a lie!"?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Wut about "everything you've read on the internet is a lie!"?

Use scispeak against that.

"You don't have that Data so you can't make the claim that it's a lie, but we have court documents supporting what we have researched."

"You don't have the Data, we have heard Hubbard talk about Xenu and we've seen OTIII in his own writing, confirmed authentic by your own RTC and the courts. Your spokesmen lie about the story of Incident II all the time."

Originally Posted by Randomness

Use scispeak against that.

Agreed, using similar phrasing as they do can be subconsciously disarming and is often used as a little communication trick to establish rapport and trust with new acquaintances.

But I also agree with this:

Originally Posted by thedoctor
people think in language. if you can change their language, you can change their mind.

Once you've soundly beaten the scieno in comment board debate, PLEASE make sure to conclude with information for the next protest.

PLEASE make sure that information is available on all scientology related comment boards.

In part this is a repetition of arguments already listed.
Some of the best stuff they've come up with I've seen in VV comments on village voice > blogs > Runnin' Scared > Anons Go Unmasked at Latest Scientology Protest , so these are actual quotes, i think all of which -except for the party reference- were answered in these comments:

"What they are fighting is an organization passionate about drug abuse, literacy and a culture of self-determined individuals."

"If your team is so tried and true where are the lawsuits. Zero. That's because you can spew hatred on blogs but you can't lie in a courtroom."

"I've been a Scientologist for over 30 years and you know zero about it other than the misconceptions you have in your head or your read in the gossips."

"I've talked to protesters. Nearly every one of them had no real clue about what Scientology is or does in reality. They've never read an intro book or even gone to the website. In the main, they were out to party. Yes there were some, and I do believe who feel they are fighting abuses. And I applaud fighting abuses. But better to put this all in context and not dwell on what happened 25 years ago."

"Nobody in Scientology EVER asked me to accept ANYTHING in Scientology on faith. I was asked to read, observe and see if it worked for me. It did."

"Freedom of Religion. When you attack the religious beliefs of one group or another you are attacking the very core of humanity."

"Scientology's main purpose, the only reason it exists is to help people. When you attack a group with that purpose it speaks volumes of your own intentions and your motives."

"Your basis of rationale all comes from the misinformation and propaganda in circulating in your own blogs."

"Kids that should be protesting a war or rampant drug abuse in our schools, or the failings of the public school system or Darfur or the many true ills are hell-bent on attacking an organization that is passionately providing help."