SciFAQ (Questions from scientologists)

This could also be considered a good/better answer to the question "why don't you protest something else?"

Please comment: The answer - Scientology Info Scandinavia Wiki

Originally Posted by infinitysnake

You could point out as well the NYU studies that concluded dianetics had no effect on intellectual ability or personailty conflicts.

Also cite that there are no listings whatsoever for their Oxford Inventory whatsoever on PsychInfo, the largest database of psychology / social work related articles on theory, studies, and psychometrics. There's no proof it's valid in the slightest.

Also, mention the No Child Left Behind program in America which is based in Scientology and was managed by Scientologistst working within the U.S. government and has widely been declaimed as a complete and utter waste of money by educators reviewing the data.

Their tech is the worst of psychology taken out of context and twisted around to get people to do what they're told. Citing and proving it would take more time than you've got, but the reality is the tech is the leash designed by Hubbard to tie the dog (the Scientologist) to the house (COS).

Originally Posted by AnonMSW

Also, mention the No Child Left Behind program in America which is based in Scientology and was managed by Scientologistst working within the U.S. government and has widely been declaimed as a complete and utter waste of money by educators reviewing the data.

No shit? I hadn't heard that before.

Originally Posted by AnonMSW

Also, mention the No Child Left Behind program in America which is based in Scientology and was managed by Scientologistst working within the U.S. government and has widely been declaimed as a complete and utter waste of money by educators reviewing the data.

Pics/dox or it didn't happen.

Originally Posted by Phil-Anon

Pics/dox or it didn't happen.

This.

Originally Posted by Phil-Anon

Pics/dox or it didn't happen.

FACTnet » TOM CRUISE AND THE DANGERS OF SCIENTOLOGY EXPOSED by Graham E. Berry

President George W. Bush’s former Secretary of Education (2001-2005) Rod Paige’s Chief of Staff was Scientologist John Danielson. They are still working together as the Chartwell Education Group. Chartwell Education Group LLC - Home
While Paige was in the Bush cabinet, the federal department of Education created and implemented the onerous P.L. 107-110, the No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB) of 2001, (now up for re-authorization).

http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/107-110.pdf.

Applied Scholastics is an approved provider in Missouri for supplemental education. On Oct. 18, 2005, the St. Louis Dispatch reported on the failure of the attempt to introduce Scientology’s Applied Scholastics education program into the St. Louis public school system. St. Louis Schools Watch: Scientology and the Schools

About Us | Leadership | Boards of Directors

"Prior to joining the Department of Education, John was one of five co-founders of Community Education Partners (CEP). CEP is a private education company that works in partnership with public schools to get disruptive and low-performing students back on track. John served as the Executive Vice President for CEP responsible for marketing and external affairs. He served in this capacity from 1995 through 2001."

Lawsuit: Alternative school abuses students | ajc.com

"... leaves them unprotected against violence and fails to educate them, according to a lawsuit filed Tuesday by, the American Civil Liberties Union. "Privately run Atlanta public school acts as a virtual prison that subjects students to routine body searches, leaves them unprotected against violence and fails to educate them, according to a lawsuit filed Tuesday by, the American Civil Liberties Union."

Agence Global - Article

"In Texas CEP's first brush with evaluation was a lesson in the pitfalls of accountability and the importance of data control. In 1997 Texas state education commissioner Mike Moses hired Carl Shaw, former chair of the Texas Education Agency's (TEA) assessment committee and head of Houston's testing for fourteen years, to assess CEP's first contract, the juvenile detention program. Shaw found limited student progress after six months in CEP, and after a year, actual regression. "I could find no evidence that there was a strong-enough academic program in place to produce change," he said. "One report I wrote for [the Houston Independent School District] said few CEP students would be smart enough for prison education. It's shocking, and here's a company touted as a leader." Shaw said CEP head Richardson was angry at his findings and his refusal to compromise his work. "The first reaction I had from Richardson was, 'I am more powerful than you,'"

Failing Students, Rising Profits

"Morris Gandy is what you'd call a dissatisfied CEP customer. CEP, however, continues to prosper. Founded ten years ago in Houston, the company entered the private-school market at a time when Texas was a roiling caldron of Republican politics and Enron-style corporate dealing--and a laboratory for education reform. George W. Bush was governor, the mantra was accountability for public schools and the tools were high-stakes testing and privatization. What emerged from the mix were the so-called Texas Miracle, which boosted student achievement; Rod Paige as President Bush's Education Secretary; and ultimately Bush's No Child Left Behind (NCLB) law, authored by Texas education player Sandy Kress."

Sandy Kress Bio

"Sandy Kress served as senior advisor to President Bush on Education with respect to the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. Mr. Kress previously served as president of the board of trustees of the Dallas Public Schools. He has served on two statewide committees to recommend improvements to Texas public education. His practice focuses on public law and policy at the state and national levels."

During Mr. Kress' tenure, CEP made great strides in infiltrating the Texas Public Education system.

APPLIED SCHOLASTICS and tax payer funding.

Our thread on the penetration of Applied Scholastics into "tutoring programs" funded by NCLB


As to failure of "No Child Left Behind," that's easy enough for you to find on your own just google it. Via NCLB and charter school initiatives, as well as portable vouchers for students / school system payment, Applied Scholastics has made serious inroads into the educational process. While these actions and policies may have enriched the pockets of Scientology, take a look at performance stats regarding America's educational system's products (educated minds) and our position in the world vis a vis student performance, then draw your own conclusions.

/r/ing info packet for the academic community.
They FUCKING HATE NCLB.

Originally Posted by Enturbonegro

/r/ing info packet for the academic community.
They FUCKING HATE NCLB.

Indeed, and given the penetration of Scientological thinking and methodolgies into the whole process, from lobbying to placing Scientologists in key positions to write legislation in the form of educational progams with massive dollars at stake; then to influence the process of not only entry into school systems but actively attempting to mischaracterize the now proven lack of efficacy...

I believe it reasonable to state that this is a reltively clear example of Scientology, through Applied Scholastics, being applied in a high stakes, real-world situation and by all appearances from long-term data, failing miserably.

We've got a legislative policy that in part was engineered to provide a federally funded window of opportunity custom-tailored to benefit Applied Scholastics by the impact of Scientology/ists on education and funding. They got in through the backdoor and claimed efficacy when there was virtually no available data to support their statements beyond the anecdotal reports of stars with highschool credentials or less.

Now it's been shown to be a failure and yet on it goes, merrily upon its way whilst large numbers of school systems simultaneously discard it while others, dazzled by flash and little in the way of substance, implement it in our schools.

There's a great deal of evidence to support the realities, the question remains how far this must go in order for Scientology as a concept to be removed from a disproportionate influence in relation to the numbers. Check the donation brokering history of those mentioned above with relation to channeling money as individuals into the political system. Consider the estimated $50 to $100 million dollars reportedly donated thus far by Tom Cruise. Take a look at efforts to lobby Congress and which groups testified about how wonderful life was going to be and how much our kids would learn using NCLB.

Then look at the numbers and see what we got for our money.

tl;dr again. sorry.

Holy shit AnonMSW. At this rate I'm going to have to marry you.

The facts are undeniably "out there," it is just a matter of whether or not someone has the freedom of critical thinking and the willingess of an open mind to follow the money. NCLB came from Texas with Bush, with it's built in staff that had close ties to Scientology and WISE companies selling Hubbard "tech." It's yet another example of the social cost of political nepotism leading to access and power in the form of political appointments made largely at the whim of the President and his politics.

Bush, like any politician, owed people for political favors and campaign contributions. Like others, he understandably had a "cadre" of people he trusted from his previous history as Govenor of Texas, and brought them along too. But at the end of the day, the people he brought as "experts" on education had authored a form of teaching the actually caused students to regress rather than progress. According to the experts, kids who came out of CPE programs had little chance of achieving the level of academic understanding and success which was required for their all too likely future prison educations.

That's who Bush brought with him from Texas and turned loose on a program costing billions of dollars. We know it's not working and we know the "source," and so to any Scientologist reading this I say, "Please go look at the facts. What you are doing is slowly being proven not to work and perhaps even to cause serious harm to students. To the extent that what's happened in the United States educational system has been disproportionately influenced by Scientologists, to that extent at a minimum Scientology cannot help but be responsible for."

Hubbard said to gain control through infiltration into the government as politicians and bureaucrts on every possible level. Scientologists in days gone by were tasked with just such "missions" and it is clear that whether "tapped" or not, some remain in government, the bureaucracy, or in our educational systems.

It's not a good methodology for teaching and demonstrably achieves poor results. I have spoken to one person I find credible, who said Hubbard's teaching methods helped him cope with his dyslexia. I would add however, that he went on to say the thing he found most useful was the part about "clearing misunderstoods before moving on."

He found it important not to move on whilst reading until he "understood" the words he had read. To him it was not the meaning of the word which was in question, but learning to have the patience to figure out how to cope with a learning / perception problem. Perhaps to an extent this seemed like a startling revalation to him, as for me I was left wondering, "Well how else would a dyslexic learn to read?"

Perhaps Scientology in the form of Applied Scholastics should do a pilot double blind study with dyslexic children, but given the available data I would say that any Institutional Review Board for Research Involving Human Subjects would have to weigh heavily reports of statistically based findings of actual retrogression rather than progress. It is within the realm of possibility that any IRB reviewing a proposal to do such research would say the potential for causing harm in the group to be taught using straight Hubbard "tech" would be too high to allow such research to occur.

Other good replies, using their own 'data' against them;

"Are you speaking from your own determinism, or the determinism of the church?"

(after any statement claiming they "haven't gotten that far yet"
"As much as I'd love to talk to you, I'm worried for your well being. I don't want to feel responsible for you being sent to ethics for just talking to me. Can you assure me that wont happen?"

"Do you really believe in everything LRH wrote in his scriptures?"
(their answer will be yes)
"So, you think people below 2 on the tone scale should be removed from society of disposed of without sorrow? It's in Science of Survival."

"I heard History of man mentions one of the steps on the whole track is the PiltDown man, is that true?"
(this is correct)
"Did you know that Piltdown man was the greatest hoax in the history of Archeology? Have you ever wondered why they never changed that? It was found to be a hoax the year after LRH wrote the book. I wonder why he never changed it."

Whenever they show anger etc;
"You seem to be dropping on the tone scale. Please take a moment to compose yourself. I don't mean to be the source of needless EnTheta"

(yes, I'm just amusing myself)

Originally Posted by 13Heathens

Other good replies, using their own 'data' against them;

"Are you speaking from your own determinism, or the determinism of the church?"

(after any statement claiming they "haven't gotten that far yet"
"As much as I'd love to talk to you, I'm worried for your well being. I don't want to feel responsible for you being sent to ethics for just talking to me. Can you assure me that wont happen?"

"Do you really believe in everything LRH wrote in his scriptures?"
(their answer will be yes)
"So, you think people below 2 on the tone scale should be removed from society of disposed of without sorrow? It's in Science of Survival."

"I heard History of man mentions one of the steps on the whole track is the PiltDown man, is that true?"
(this is correct)
"Did you know that Piltdown man was the greatest hoax in the history of Archeology? Have you ever wondered why they never changed that? It was found to be a hoax the year after LRH wrote the book. I wonder why he never changed it."

Whenever they show anger etc;
"You seem to be dropping on the tone scale. Please take a moment to compose yourself. I don't mean to be the source of needless EnTheta"

(yes, I'm just amusing myself)

These are really pretty good.

the scn can not well not confront fair game, if they ever did they would say it was cancled in th 60,s, this is one of the reason they don,t come out of the building, most of the scn do not think fair game is active, the scn think SCN managment is snow white, FAIR GAME IS SCN WEAKIST LINK THEY CAN NOT DEFEND, AND IT,S WHAT OSA HIDDES THE MOST .PROVE TO A SCN THAT FAIR GAME IS ACTIVE MOST WELL LEAVE. SCN IS HELD TOGETHER WITH THE BETTER PART LIE,S AND TRUTH KILL,S LIE,S. 120 PERCENT OF WAY I PROTEST IS because of fair game, the only reason I left scn is because of fair game maine reason, the KARMA EFFECT of people siting in a room all day figuring out how to fuck some one, is madness to the mind and degeneration to the body, look what happend to fisher locked up in jail going mad x osa agent, read the fisher file,s. what are we potesting for, we all want scn to stop hurting people and clean up there act.

The anons on this thread are good-intentioned but are ignorant if they believe they can communicate with a cult member on an objective or rational level. Be aware that any Scilon sent to bullbait anons have been repeatedly drilled & programmed (nice word for brainwashed) on how to confront anons & what to say to you. If you think you are going to be able to rationally & politely chat with a Scilon, you're dumber than a rock.

In addition to the drilling & mind-fucking, Scilons know they can be penalized (lower conditions, RPF'd) if they are observed doing or saying anything they were not specifically ordered to do.. they must follow the drills. Anons need to understand they are the wogs - useless, pieces of shit that don't deserve the least bit respect. Where they may come across as open to talking to you, any words that come out of your mouth to them are seen as, essentially the devil talking to them.

The best way to handle a Scientologist that wants to talk to you, is not to. Don't enagage them. Trust me. You'll be the better man or woman for it.

The anons on this thread are good-intentioned but are ignorant if they believe they can communicate with a cult member on an objective or rational level. ...Anons need to understand they are the wogs - useless, pieces of shit that don't deserve the least bit respect. ...The best way to handle a Scientologist that wants to talk to you, is not to. Don't enagage them. Trust me. You'll be the better man or woman for it.

1. What did you think of AGP vs Ava then? you did say she was totally brainwashed. did you think she will be able to get over her encounter or do you think it will plant a doubt? that is what i want to learn how to do is plant doubts. if that is all i ever do and only for one sci i will be a happy newb.

2. its important for anons to be wogs +/ babyraping demon cyberterrorist haters who heil hitler and rape babies...b/c that makes anons easier to hate/hurt/dismiss. watching the clips from raids it looked to me like lulz+cake+free hugs does a good job of shaking the tree. it looked to me like some sci's were thinking "oh shit this i did not expect". it may be possible to prepare for logcal arguments but i don't think they are so good at prepare for crzy.

3. i have read the stories of several exs, all the way from sea org to not so much, and thier reasons for blowing varied. some other exs on clambake give advise on what kind of information/arguments to present, so i think you are just giving your opinion and anyone who has done thier homework and feels ready to try should not be dissuaded.

please don't think that b/c this is structured 123 that i am attacking you, if you are ex- then i want to learn from you. but if you are convinced that we can't reach anyone i reserve the right to disagree. maybe you meant logic is not the way to go about it. how would you have felt about a guy fawkes trying to hand you a flower then?

(scilon57 seems to like this ---> so i will use it here for good effect even though its extra gay )

I mean you no harm, we come in piece, wuld you like some caek?

(for some reason i hear microsoft mike in my head when i type that)

happy smurf and other exes who have not commented in this thread want to let me know what you think?