US Central Regional Protest: Chicago Vs. St. Louis

OK i want to specify that i am not trying to start a fight, nor am i trying to usurp any work that any one has done. This is simply a suggestion that will need to be acted on quickly before any further work is done by either the Chicaganons or the Mid-Americanons.

Understanding that the St Louis region has kept fairly quiet about their action on the enturb forums, we have been very active in the Anti-Scientology Movement. That why i am trying to sell you on St Louis on as the location for the July 26th Anonville regional protest

Here is copypasta of me from cosstl.lumak.net forum's

Originally Posted by ACEdotcom

On my trip to Chicago last week I did a little bit of recon At the Chicago COS. and there are a few things I learned.

First of all, i have to say that the Chicago COS SUCKS...i mean not just for the cultishness, but its in a horrible, horrible location. The Neighborhood it is in is Lakeview which is, if you can imagine, 100 times the size of Delmar. That is NOT an understatement, and it is very much a community of beatnik's and bohemians. However the COS isn't like that Giant org we have, instead it is basically in a store front (which seems more fitting) but apparently it has been impossible for the chicaganons to secure the proper dox to protest. This is a very foot trafficy neighborhood, and at the last protest they had to march around it because they were not allowed to block foot traffic.

Secondly, its in a good, not great location. There are hotels and what not around there but they are going to be harder to reserve because that 'hood also contains Wrigley Field (moar like Wrigley FAIL'd, amirite Cards fans?) on top of that it is still about four miles from downtown chicago where all the Amtrak, greyhound, megabus and what not services originate from. I know four miles is NOTHING, but it took me about 60 minutes to cross town by bicycle...i couldn't imagine trying to walk that.

So here are my recommendations (more or less what i will be doing until i hear something better)

1 - get your hotel downtown. and plan on staying up to two days. its gives you FAR greater anonymity and the room rates should be better. you can still get to the protest using the CTA (chicago's metrobus) or cab. Rooms can be cheaper if booked together, so a group rate might be worth looking into. Why two days? because even if you take the megabus that get there at 6am and then leave as late as possible that same day, unless you are organized and knowing exactly were to go, you are asking for FAIL, trust me on this.
get there the day before, relax get checked in, see a little of the city, SLEEP, protest, PARTY HARD, sleep some more, get checked out, get on the train, sleep again.

2 - Take the train. as appealing as "megabus" sounds, the rates for amtrak are about the same and it is FAR more comfortale (i cannot stress that enough) Right now, megabusT is running $20 dollar each way and Amtrak is running at $23 (albeit, that trains leaves at 5am) the trips ARE the same amount of time, about 5.5 hours.

3 - you won't need too much extra scratch. unless you plan on Eating at "Blackies" every night, or going to The Red Head Piano Bar, there are literally mcdonald's every corner. even if you eat at the local places (CND Gyros, anyone?) you are looking at less then $10 dollars a meal. The first time I went to chicago i had about $50 on me and that kept me going for three days. For two days, that should cover all but the heartiest of eaters.

Here is a basic cost breakdown...
$50 for round trip train
$140 for two nights in a hotel (my hotels were on the magnificent mile and were both fucking awesome)
$20 for in transportation (bus and maybe a cab ride)
$50 for food, booze

Itinerary
Leave stl at 4.5 am the 25th
arrive chi 10.5am the 25th
check-in at 3pm (yes i know there is a 5 hour gap)
do whatever ya do until the next day (run along lake Michigan, anyone)
attend the protest on the 26th a 11am
PARTY HARD until ???
check out at 6am on the 27th
train leaves at 7am and should arrive in stl at 12.5pm the 27th

Basically you are looking at around $250 for the total trip. if you are not interested in the whole three day trip then you can easily knock $70 dollars off of that total.
and if you are brave enough to try that whole one day thing then you wont need more then bus fare ($50 round trip) and incidentals.


NOW IMHO i think the Chicago Protest Idea SUCKS. ONLY because the Chicago police have been dicks, They have had a proportionately LOWER turn out then we have had, and the location is pure balls. So here is my suggestion, LETS GET ON ENTURB AND TRY TO GET THE LOCATION CHANGED TO ST LOUIS! We know the advantages of our location.. friendly cops, easy access, all that shit...don't get me wrong, i will still go to the chicago protest just because i love that fucking city, but i REALLY dont think anyone knows what a hassle the 'hood the org is in is.

also more quoteage

Originally Posted by ACEdotcom

xBLiTZxKRiEGx wrote:
makes sence to me.
st. louis is more centrally located than chicago.


That wasn't even something i had even thought about. If people are coming from the south that would reduce the lencth of the trip by about 5 hours, while increase the overall all travel time for people from the north by about 5 hours...that means less canadianons...but POSSIBLY an overall increase of people from across MO and central IL and Indiana.

Bad Timing wrote:
From a purely tourist(i'm sure ppl will want to do shit other than march) standpoint, STL is better; everything is free, except for trips to the top of the arch and teh City Museum, and STL is probably MUCH cheaper than Chicago( amirite Ace?).

From a protest standpoint, we have a much better transit system(at least to access the Co$) Metrolink goes from both downtown to the airport, both major hotel areas, providing an easy route to go to and from the protest area,
and obviously it seems like we have a much better neighborhood to protest in.


I feel that, for tourists, Chicago is VERY accessible, its easy to find out where you are going, but its easy to get turned around and had the wrong direction.
And frankly as far as tourist traps go, Chicago and St Louis Run about the same cost wise. HOWEVER, there is FAR less to do. I love being able to walk out of my hotel at 2AM, walk two blocks and get a Footlong. SAINT LOUIS SUCKS FOR NIGHTLIFE UNLESS YOU HAVE A CAR AND LIKE TO DRINK. and after 6PM there is shit to do downtown except for the landing (drinking) midtown (more drinking) and union station (drinking with the hood rats).

Seriously, that would keep me away from this area, because i am not to much of a drinker, so there goes the areas number one past time. the facts is that in Chicago there is alot more to do all times of day. and its really not to expensive.

I do feel metrolink offers huge win for visitors. The airport, Downtown hotels and transits centers in on place are just to good to let go to waste...especially since this is going to be a bunch of cash strapped college kids.

kazoo-anon wrote:
Stl. fags have moar fun, better caek, much much betterest brownies! better pigs(I mean nice police men)

We could offer to put up a traveling fag(save money on hotel) for that matter there are plenty of low cost kamp sites.

Hey mom, you don't mind if a few masked college buddies pitch a tent in our front yard do ya mom do ya.


thats not a terrible idea, i might even consider taking in a few people. (i think i could take up to Four). I don't live far from a metrolink and have ample car access.



Now i forgot to ask if anyone see problems with going to enturb about this...it needs to be done soon...but i certainly think our Org is far better. However, if i lived outside of both of these areas and had to make the choice, i might choose chicago unless it was %100 clear that st. louis was the more important location. As far as the importance goes, i think Chicago probably reaches more people then the STL Org. that one location might have a huge volunteer ministry and i know that the chicago Org has sympathetic cops and city officials.

If it were possible to protest both Downtown AND the Chicago Org then i would completely be for Chicago however i couldn't imagine the +200 (hopefully) on that tiny busy Lakeview sidewalk.

Last One

Originally Posted by ACEdotcom

Like I said, it looks like they are aiming for Millennium Park, which is a very convenient, and close to downtown location. If you figure the same incidental expenses with the use of megabusT and a hostel it should look like this for two days.

Bus round Trip $50
Hostel two days $50 ($25 for one day)
Incidentals $50

Which is not really that bad, plus you get to stay in a badass city.
However, i just feel that by not protesting at the org, in a seemingly random location is self defeating and confusing.

TL;DR - Chicago is great, not very expensive, and if the Protest will be at Millennium Park, easy to access. St Louis Is very Similar expect we can actually go right up to the steps of our Org if we please. Geographically we are more centrally located but we also having a lower turn out from the more northern cities, but also a larger draw from the mid and southern states.
I am absolutely for th more central location. I am also against th idea of joint or simultaneous protest, as it will degrade the importance of the regional protest. Regardless of St Louis or Chicago or where-ever , i will attend the Anonville protest.

This is about Solidarity, and ease of access is part of that.

(the full thread can be seen here - cosstl.lumak.net/july-26-regional-protest-recon-facts-t584-15.html)

Sure, I might be biased in wanting St. Louis to host the regional.... but srsly guize:

StL Org surrounding area > Chicago Org surrounding area
StL Org geographical location > Chicago Org geographical location
StL Org police attitude > Chicago Org police attitude
StL Org huge church > Chicago Org storefront

tl;dr: StL Org is a much better place to protest at.

Well, the reason we initially thought Chicago was because they're opeing the midwest scilon center here. Midwest regional protest vs. midwest regional scilon center made sense.

Also, the police are great here. We had some early troubles, but they've been great ever since that.

According to our STL guy who lives locally, your transit system sucks (and isnt any fun - green line anybody? lololo). One rail line = fail.

also thanks for pulling out our numbers out of context because the weather at all 3 protests have absolutely nothing to do with it

feb: breath freezing in the air
march: wasnt so bad, our biggest turnout but still cold
april: raining and depressing cold

chicago is fine

here is a picture from infront of the St Louis Org.



it used to be a Mason building.

I'm the guy debris was talking about. I'm originally from stl, but moved to chicago. I was actually floored a few months back to learn the church was in the loop (or at least right outside it. admit it guys, its on the far end where noone goes.) I bet I even know a few of you st chuck fags that show up there. Its definitely one of the best possible spots in st louis for the protest to be held, and definitely better than chicago's storefront location, but unless you guys step it up with some major plans with it, I would still have to go with chicago.

As already pointed out, we're holding our protests in Millennium Park, not the storefront location. We already realized that location was fail. There is simply no place for us to stand in one location. We only got harassed by police because we were blocking a public walkway.

Its true the metrolink is decent for the protest. I really dont think anyone would be flying into st louis though. St Louis really isnt a foot traffic friendly city, even downtown. A major difference between stl and chi in reguards to bums and vagrants, in stl they're fucking centralized downtown. as in, don't walk down a street late at night. In chicago, they're decentralized, so you can walk around downtown freely; its actually safer. This is besides the point though. simply put, if you didnt drive, enjoy your walking fail.

In chicago, we already have a HOSTEL google mapped from the train station, and have links to the site to set up reservations. We have it all planned out for midwestfags, and if they want an even cheaper hostel, there is a really nice one on loyola campus. I would suggest only people who drive book that one. The hostel downtown is really freaking nice, and im pretty sure they rent out group rooms. so if you have namefagged groups coming, definitely check out room rates! This hostel is literally 2 blocks away from the park where we will be protesting.

I would have to say though, I really like the stl midwest idea. Maybe I'm just itching to go home for a weekend. Maybe I'd like to see what stl fags are made of. but you guys need to step it up. maybe search out for some epic ideas (get a permit for a march down the street? lulz) I still love you stl fags, and sometimes wish i could protest down there as well as up here!

Its true, we've had some less than epic protests, but we've had some srsly shitty weather. We have a VERY dedicated group working on this to make the midwest raid as epic as possible. When the warm weather hits us, there will be no stopping us. We will prove that in 10 days.

1. As Nim mentioned Chicago is where they're gonna open the new midwest center in South Loop this summer


2. Just compare the maps:

Chicago
2hrs from Milwaukee.
3hrs from Fort Wayne, Indianapolis.
4hrs from Detroit.
5hrs from Cincinatti, Columbus, and Cleveland and St. Louis.
6hrs from Minneapolis.

St Louis
4hrs from Memphis, Indianapolis
5hrs from Cincinatti, Chicago
6hrs from Columbus
7hrs from Omaha, Witchita, Cleveland

If you go with Chicago, you have the potential to draw in anons from most of the major cities in the northern midwest... it's within driving distance of IL, IA, WI, MN, OH, MI, and MO. Kansas City... the nearest major midwest cities are between 4-6 hours away instead of 2-4.

3. Cardinals suck... this is the Cubs' season :P

Originally Posted by Debris

According to our STL guy who lives locally, your transit system sucks (and isnt any fun - green line anybody? lololo). One rail line = fail.

also thanks for pulling out our numbers out of context because the weather at all 3 protests have absolutely nothing to do with it

feb: breath freezing in the air
march: wasnt so bad, our biggest turnout but still cold
april: raining and depressing cold

chicago is fine

Yeah, our weather was exactly the same for ours, but March was great. it felt damn near like summer.

As far as the the transit goes, the BUSES SUCK. However, the Train (Metrolink) is great and serves Both Airports, downtown, and MegaBusT stop directly. There are only to routes on our train system so getting lost is no big deal. Metrolink runs about every 10-20 minutes and is accessible from the Org in Delmar, all the way to boonies in Il. $2, one way fare.

I think Chicago is fine, but for a centralized location, St Louis is better.

Originally Posted by nimonian

Well, the reason we initially thought Chicago was because they're opeing the midwest scilon center here. Midwest regional protest vs. midwest regional scilon center made sense.

Also, the police are great here. We had some early troubles, but they've been great ever since that.

I find this relevant to my interest, is this location available for protestin'? Even better, could permits be secured prior to the ARP?

If its available or even open by the ARP then i see nothing but win here, otherwise, i still see St Louis as the better location.

Originally Posted by b00radley

I'm the guy debris was talking about. I'm originally from stl, but moved to chicago. I was actually floored a few months back to learn the church was in the loop (or at least right outside it. admit it guys, its on the far end where noone goes.) I bet I even know a few of you st chuck fags that show up there. Its definitely one of the best possible spots in st louis for the protest to be held, and definitely better than chicago's storefront location, but unless you guys step it up with some major plans with it, I would still have to go with chicago.

As already pointed out, we're holding our protests in Millennium Park, not the storefront location. We already realized that location was fail. There is simply no place for us to stand in one location. We only got harassed by police because we were blocking a public walkway.

Its true the metrolink is decent for the protest. I really dont think anyone would be flying into st louis though. St Louis really isnt a foot traffic friendly city, even downtown. A major difference between stl and chi in reguards to bums and vagrants, in stl they're fucking centralized downtown. as in, don't walk down a street late at night. In chicago, they're decentralized, so you can walk around downtown freely; its actually safer. This is besides the point though. simply put, if you didnt drive, enjoy your walking fail.

In chicago, we already have a HOSTEL google mapped from the train station, and have links to the site to set up reservations. We have it all planned out for midwestfags, and if they want an even cheaper hostel, there is a really nice one on loyola campus. I would suggest only people who drive book that one. The hostel downtown is really freaking nice, and im pretty sure they rent out group rooms. so if you have namefagged groups coming, definitely check out room rates! This hostel is literally 2 blocks away from the park where we will be protesting.

I would have to say though, I really like the stl midwest idea. Maybe I'm just itching to go home for a weekend. Maybe I'd like to see what stl fags are made of. but you guys need to step it up. maybe search out for some epic ideas (get a permit for a march down the street? lulz) I still love you stl fags, and sometimes wish i could protest down there as well as up here!

Its true, we've had some less than epic protests, but we've had some srsly shitty weather. We have a VERY dedicated group working on this to make the midwest raid as epic as possible. When the warm weather hits us, there will be no stopping us. We will prove that in 10 days.

Cept for the bums, i have already covered everything you mentioned in my very first post. Even really that there is nothing to do in downtown (so who cares about the bums.

We could make epic plans, if we thought that there was a reason to. thats the point of this thread, its not to usurp, just to explore.

Personally, i think Millenium Park is good, but completely off base. Its random, Its FAR from the Org, and the outreach just isn't the same. Ultimately it is a park where people are coming to play and what not, not be evangelized. I would rather stay on target.

We also have a very dedicated core group that could organize epic in no time. But there is no sense in playing unless there is a crowd to pitch to.

Oh! Here's something! The (formerly) Artcraft Building where the midwest center is being built is at 650 S Clark... that's less than 1 mile from Millenium Park. We could have the party at the park, then march a good 1000 anons down the streets to the protest at the new site (I know it opens this summer, but do we have an exact date yet?).

Note: The March route would take us right along Michigan Ave. The arguably the busiest street in the entire midwest.

Originally Posted by Danilov

1. As Nim mentioned Chicago is where they're gonna open the new midwest center in South Loop this summer


2. Just compare the maps:

Chicago
2hrs from Milwaukee.
3hrs from Fort Wayne, Indianapolis.
4hrs from Detroit.
5hrs from Cincinatti, Columbus, and Cleveland and St. Louis.
6hrs from Minneapolis.

St Louis
4hrs from Memphis, Indianapolis
5hrs from Cincinatti, Chicago
6hrs from Columbus
7hrs from Omaha, Witchita, Cleveland

If you go with Chicago, you have the potential to draw in anons from most of the major cities in the northern midwest... it's within driving distance of IL, IA, WI, MN, OH, MI, and MO. Kansas City... the nearest major midwest cities are between 4-6 hours away instead of 2-4.

3. Cardinals suck... this is the Cubs' season :P

I had that coming after that whole "Wrigley FAIL'd" comment...but any way.

I am not going into details about driving distances because both cities are close to other major Cities, so that is a self defeating argument. Most of those places north are in driving distance, its just a longer drive (or bus or train...)

I would like to state, that if the Midwest Scilon Hellhole is Ready by the summer, and protesting is available at that location, then i would find this discussion obsolete. I would prefer Chicago, i can't state that enough. But he location of the current Org is just to far from the protest grounds.

Also, for clarity, Millennium park isn't just a park, it's a major tourist destination located in the heart of downtown. Thousands pass through it on summer weekends, and it draws a lot of foreign tourists.

Originally Posted by nimonian

Also, for clarity, Millennium park isn't just a park, it's a major tourist destination located in the heart of downtown. Thousands pass through it on summer weekends, and it draws a lot of foreign tourists.

Yeah, i have been there before and its fucking awesome. My problem is that i don't know how i would feel, as a tourist, to seeing 1000 protesters on a Saturday afternoon when i just want to take a picture of myself in the giant bean mirror.

picture of the amphitheater there is a VERY large park area surrounding it.