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Old 07-16-2008, 11:47 AM   #61 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

same proceeding as before, again italics mark the parts of text to which comments refer to. concerns question 13, including my take on the translation of the list of basic human needs.

Quote:
Neither young nor old, poor nor rich, poorly nor well educated are immune from what Scientology offers.
it's put a little different in the original, it's more like "neither less educated, nor people with a university degree", not very important, it just doesn't call some people poorly educated, it's a little difference in style.

Quote:
Usually the first contact with the Scientology Organisation occurs with the receipt of propaganda material that the Scientology Organisation has used to flood Germany for years, or as a result of contact on the street.
not a big thing, it's more like "as a result of being approached on the street", but I think it's pretty clear this is meant, when "contact" is being used, that this refers to a targeted contact.

Quote:
Scientology seeks in its recruitment strategy - often with help of a personality test - to subjectively exploit weak points of its potential customers. (See also question 14.)
rather "to exploit points subjectively regarded as weak" or similar, because what's subjective in the sentence is the assessment of something being a weak point, not the exploitation.

Quote:
Scientology apparently offers new prospective customers an individually tailored life improvement program; to this end beginner courses are for all situations in life. (eg. “Course for the improvement of life”; “How to make work easier”; “Being a successful parent”; “Leading a happy marriage”; “The ups and downs of life” or a “Communications course”.)
I think rather "seemingly" than apparently and also rather "part of this are beginner courses for all situations in life", because these courses are called a part of the "life improvement program" in the original.

Quote:
Thereby, Scientologists use the basic human needs of acceptance, contact, freedom from fear, security, explanatory exemplars, and success.
A remark: I'm not sure about thereby, because it's more similar to "dadurch" than to "dabei". I think "Dabei" in this context means something like: "In doing so", "While doing so", or rather "The following is part of the way they do it". Don't know how to really put it, but it's rather a description of how it's done than a description of a desired consequence. But I have no alternative proposition.
With regards to the list, here's my take on it:

Quote:
the basic human needs of affection, contacts, freedom from fear, security, explanatory patterns and success.
explanation for this list: affection, because Zuneigung is more than acceptance, but actually being liked/loved by others, contacts as a plural, because it's plural in the original, freedom from fear, because I think assuredness means something like basic self-confidence, while "Angstfreiheit" means one doesn't have to be determined by fears. If you're self-assured, you're probably free from fear, but if you're free from fear you can still be not self-assured. But it's possible I misunderstand the meaning of assuredness. "Explanatory patterns", because "Erklärungsmuster" are structures which are helpful to understand things.

Quote:
In the introductory stage, Scientology arouses the impression of being able to deliver competent assistance through a coherently functioning concept which promises the removal of all subjectively disturbing, unpleasant or intolerable perceived feelings (fear, uncertainty, low self-esteem etc) and from this, resulting behaviours in business, partnerships and social circles.
I'm not sure how this word is used in this context, but if it's the same as "gives the impression" it's certainly ok.
If -second part- this means the same as "and also the removal of behaviours in business, partnerships and social circles, which are resulting from these" it's certainly ok.

Quote:
The SO-functionaries are themselves not free to act, and are steered by the system.
no, rather "in the choice of their behaviour towards the customer", because of "in ihrem Verhalten gegenüber dem Kunden".

Quote:
The customer must be reckoned to regularly, initiated through dubious methods, purchase services and goods such as books, cassettes and the “E-meter”.
I don't think so, because this sentence is about what the customer has to expect or to reckon with and not what he can be reckoned with, so what's described in this sentence after "initiated" is really the center of the message here. There's also a need for a "therefore", because of the "daher". So, proposal, doesn't sound too good:

Quote:
The customer must therefore expect to regularly be brought by dubious means to purchase services and goods such as books, cassettes and the “E-meter”.
Quote:
Strenuous sauna visits, for the “detoxification” of the body are recommended after the introductory course, in order to make the customer pliable for re-education and indoctrination through training and auditing, ie, imperceptibly breaking down their resistance and making them compliant.
Several smaller points not that important, but in the original it doesn't explicitly state that this is the purpose, it's a description of what's happening. Also, a smaller grammatical change, so new proposal here:

"Streneous sauna visits, recommended for “detoxification” of the body after the introductory course, make the customer..."

I'm also not sure about "their" because this is plural and before it was "the customer", so maybe "his" instead?

Quote:
The Scientology Organisation appears to the individual in very different roles:
- As salesman and trainer of personality development and management techniques (without proper information, the customer often does not recognise that he is being trained according to Scientologic principles);
"can not" or alternatively "without proper information, it's often unrecognizable to the customer, that..."
Also "management principles"/"principles of management" instead of just "principles", because it's "Managementgrundsätzen" in the original (grundsätze=principals/basics).

Quote:
- As an apparently selflessly acting social reformer, dedicated to the “improvement” of society.
probably not important proposal and maybe worse than now: "an" instead, at least in the original it's the indefinite article

Quote:
In addition, employees may be pulled into the Scientology system by their employer, entrepreneur or personnel chief.
not sure. if it's the same as "personell manager" it's ok.

Quote:
Often this happens through “skill enhancement courses” in which employees are introduced to the Scientologic technology.
a remark: In german "Fortbildungskurse" is a word normally used for something genuine, so it's supposed to sound harmless/normal. If this is the same with "skill enhancement courses" or if it doesn't sound strange by itself in english, then it's ok.

Quote:
Clues that an enterprise is controlled following Scientologic management principles can be, amongst other things:
maybe, maybe "according to" instead. Depends on what's normal usage in english.

Quote:
semi-injurious control techniques, inhumane pressure to perform, the use of so-called “Ethics Records” alongside normal personnel records, with which co-workers are obligated to denounce colleagues in “Knowledge reports” in furtherance of the firm’s aim. (See questions 16 and 21.)
several points, at the end there's a proposal for a new version including all of them.
first part: Hard to translate, maybe "control techniques partially in violation of human dignity", in any case it's important to mention human dignity here, as it's the thing which is violated according to the original.
second part: "the obligation for co-workers to..." instead, no "with which", this is the next item in the list of indications.
thirs part (underlined): This is quite different from the original. In the original it's mentioned here that knowledge reports on co-workers are sent to the highest levels of the company for the purpose of denounciation, so proposal: "to write “Knowledge reports” on colleagues for the purpose of denounciation, which are to be sent to the top of the company."

proposal for new version:

Quote:
Control techniques partially in violation of human dignity, inhumane pressure to perform, the use of so-called “Ethics Records” alongside normal personnel records, the obligation for co-workers to write “Knowledge reports” on colleagues for the purpose of denounciation, which are to be sent to the top of the company.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:50 PM   #62 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

same proceeding as before, again italics mark the parts of text to which comments refer to. on question 14

Quote:
The placative term of brainwashing insufficiently captures the psychological and social manipulation techniques with which the Scientology Organisation (SO) transforms an individual’s personality and in doing so make him an efficient element of its system.
maybe better "captures the psychological... techniques only insufficiently, with which..." if this works gramatically. "Only" added because of "nur". Also, see next sentence.

Quote:
The SO commands a whole arsenal of graduated soft and hard manipulation techniques.(48) (See also question 11 and reference 39)
"In fact, the SO commands..." because this sentence is referring to the "only" of the last sentence as in "this is insufficient, because the SO actually commands..."

Quote:
As far as is known, only Sea Org members must submit themselves to this, when they have failed. (See question 7.)
better: "currently only Sea Org members" because of "derzeit".

Quote:
In the classical sense, brainwashing is understood as a type of torture for political prisoners or prisoners of war, from whom a fictitious confession or a complete reversal of political beliefs is extracted.
Rather something like -dont know whether it sounds right-: "for whom a fictitious confession or a complete reversal of political beliefs is intended; often this intend succeeds." Important here is only, that there are actually two parts: The intention and that it often succeeds.

Quote:
This effect on a prisoner arises from, amongst other things, non-stop interrogation, sleep and food deprivation, continuous and often rhythmic mental irritation, threats and promises. The prisoners are thereby forced into a state of decreased consciousness, increased suggestibility and indecision.
I'm not sure about "indecision", because the original talks about a state where one has lost his willpower. maybe "loss of willpower" instead, but I don't know.

Quote:
After many years of research the Canadian sociologist Stephen A. Kent came to the conclusion that detention in the Rehabilitation Project Force serves as a method of personality shaping by means of brainwashing. (49) (See question 22, the case of Wollersheim, and questions 11, 12 and 16.)
In the original it reads "question 22 (the case of Wollersheim)". Not much of a difference, but these two items aren't separated in the original, the second is an explanation of the first.

Quote:
In the framework of a highly-developed punishment system, techniques are used outside of the penitentiaries which are reminiscent of the procedures of brainwashing.
maybe rather: "techniques, which are reminiscent of the procedures of brainwashing are also used outside of the penitentiaries", the important point here is the word "also", they are used inside as well, the author only found it remarkable that they were also used outside.

Quote:
At first new customer hears nothing of the punishment system or the prevailing totalitarian control and guidance system of the organisation.
I think an "a" is missing: a new customer

Quote:
Therefore, alternative, admittedly very simple explanations and self-appraisal are supplied.
This isn't the translation of "freilich" in this context. I think "yet" hits home closer.

Quote:
These simple explanations are built from a body of well-known psychological, esoteric and lay-psychology theories, so that the customer finds comfort in them, and are interpreted now in a Scientologic sense.
this is quite different from the original. The original is about finding partially known terms, which are then interpreted in a Scientologic sense, so proposal:

"so that the customer finds partially familiar terms, which are now interpreted in a Scientologic sense."

Quote:
For example, in the communications course one sits motionless opposite the trainer staring in his eyes for a few minutes and sometimes up to hours.
I'd skip "a few", because the original doesn't state how many minutes.

Quote:
Educational pressures, exerted by the SO upon the individual, play an important role in the control and guidance of external behaviours and internal attitudes. (See also question 16.)
A part from the original is missing here: "...exerted by the SO upon the individual by means of the "Ethics" system, play an important role..."

Quote:
The former Scientologist Potthoff, who became acquantied with the Scientology System as a high ranking manager, stated his experiences with the Scientological training in a hearing on 6 December 1993 in the state parliament of Baden-Wüttemberg as follows: (50)
maybe a "top manager" even, don't know.

Quote:
“My own experiences with the purification rundown, the communications training and auditing have led me to fundamentally reject Scientologic procedure.
in the original it says: "to fundamentally reject this Scientologic procedure"

Quote:
I see therein a strong manipulation of people, particularly in the case where a new language is also simultaneously introduced.
no, rather "if in this mental state"

Quote:
In this situation people are made to think thoughts which would never normally arise.
maybe. I'll just write how I understand the original passage: ...people are brought to ideas they wouldn't normally have. They aren't directly forced, more like directed. Don't know whether it's a problem and how it could be changed in case it is.

Quote:
People can have their personality so seriously altered that they separate from their wife and children, abandon their family, give up studies, ruin their companies and commit criminal fraud in order to pay for auditing and other things, and be drawn into drug-related crime.
rather: "be drawn into a sort of drug-related crime." because he isn't talking about actual drug related crimes, but comparing auditing etc. to drugs.

Quote:
This can only account for the fact that employees of Scientology on orders submit themselves without great resistance into prison camps, and to the tormenting and degrading procedures of the organisation. (See also question 15.)
Other way around: "Only this can account for"

Quote:
An intensive scientific study of the methods of psychological manipulation used by Scientology was initiated by the Bavarian State Government and is currently available as “Health and Legal Risks of Scientology” (Gesundheitliche und rechtliche Risiken bei Scientology).
not important, but maybe rather "by now", because they are stressing that it hasn't been available before, rather than mentioning the distant possibility of it becoming non-available again.
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:53 AM   #63 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

I must apologise for my lack of work here. Uni and work has overtaken my life, and I cannot dedicate as much time as I was able to previously. If there are any German/English speakers, please might I implore you to participate because this truly is a worthwhile document.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:35 AM   #64 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

I'll try to hold the front in your absence, then..what exactly is yet untranslated?
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In the Land of Clearwater where the Thetans lie.
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One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness deny them
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:22 AM   #65 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

@brisanonb no need to apologise, thanks a thousand times for the work you have done so far.

@Fleischmann everything from question 15 onwards, I also think some of the suggestions for question 14 (see posts above) haven't been checked yet, but these aren't as important. Also consider that there's a complete version from TrevAnon, which might serve as a basis for translation, it's an automatic translation, over which s/he went once more to correct mistakes.
Thanks a lot for the work you're doing. I'll see to it, that I'll do more translation work once again, when there's time and other requirements are fulfilled as well.
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:07 PM   #66 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

Alright, I'll be on it..
__________________
Three Rings for the Stalker-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Hollywood-lords in their halls of fame,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Clearwater where the Thetans lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to buy them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness deny them
In the Land of Clearwater where the Thetans lie.
-LesboSensei
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:27 PM   #67 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

Quote:
Originally Posted by brisanonb View Post
I must apologise for my lack of work here. Uni and work has overtaken my life, and I cannot dedicate as much time as I was able to previously. If there are any German/English speakers, please might I implore you to participate because this truly is a worthwhile document.
I could take a stab at translating short passages. I have a number of years of high school and college German as well as German grandparents who spoke it fluently. I would probably be quite slow at translation but I understand grammar enough to suss out what's being said (with the help of a good German/English dictionary. PM me if that sounds like it would help.
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:24 AM   #68 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

Dictionary / Wörterbuch (BEOLINGUS, TU Chemnitz) is rather useful.
__________________
Three Rings for the Stalker-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Hollywood-lords in their halls of fame,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Clearwater where the Thetans lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to buy them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness deny them
In the Land of Clearwater where the Thetans lie.
-LesboSensei
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Old 08-07-2008, 03:46 AM   #69 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

Here is the English document I have made so far whilst working. This includes all of Indeedindeed's suggestions.
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

I am going to quickly punch this into an incomplete draft first half of the "print" doc for everyone to salivate over.
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Old 08-09-2008, 08:52 AM   #70 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

Hi and,

I suggest to use "OT Levels" instead of "OT Stages" in the text from "Question 9" and "Question 12". And also "For level OT III" instead of "For stage OT III".

I know, in German we use "OT-Stufen", but in English I never saw that they were called "OT-Stages".

Operation Clambake present: OT Levels & Confidential Material Summary List

Have fun and Thank you for this great Job on this translation!!


Last edited by Ilse Hruby; 08-09-2008 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:41 PM   #71 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

Hi

FACTnet : Cult, Cults, Abuse by Religions, Abuse Recovery Discussion & Resources, Peer-Support, Legal support is also very interested in the translation of this document. We have a german speaking person who can help as well as part of the team.

Is there a link to the current state of the translation? Is there a way that you think we can best help you with the great translation work that you are already doing?

L
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:34 AM   #72 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

Thanks a lot for your offer. There's a link to the current state of the translation:
posting #69 by brisanonb. I think this includes the first 14 questions as of yet.
There should also be a file with an automated translation by trevanon somewhere in this thread, he went over the whole document to correct mistakes by the auto translation, but I can't find it in this thread anymore. I believe it used to be on the first page as an attachement as there's also dialogue about zip and txt formats there.

Quote:
We have a german speaking person who can help as well as part of the team.

Is there a way that you think we can best help you with the great translation work that you are already doing?
Sure, just join the fun in this thread. The idea is that you can either make drafts for parts that haven't been translated yet (so anything from question 15 on) or make suggestions for corrections of already translated stuff by quoting what part you'd like to see changed, why and how. Same procedure if you got remarks, but no exact idea with what to replace it, that's fine as well, someone else might.
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:35 AM   #73 (link to here)
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Re: "Das System Scientology"

Quote:
Originally Posted by indeedindeed View Post
There should also be a file with an automated translation by trevanon somewhere in this thread, he went over the whole document to correct mistakes by the auto translation, but I can't find it in this thread anymore. I believe it used to be on the first page as an attachement as there's also dialogue about zip and txt formats there.
I think all attached files have been dropped from enturbulation.org because the admins decided to go to MegaUpload. I tried upload my document (the raw translation) there (cannot find if the admins have done this themselves) but I seem to do something wrong.

I still have the document, and maybe some other anons have it too (indeedindeed?). Please pm me a mailaddress so I can e-mail the document there.
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