Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

Originally Posted by Eff

Many many thanks to those who have done a good job of giving us a translation to English so quickly.

Reality check tiem though. We accuse Co$ of having a "guilty until proven guilty" mindset when it comes to their opponents. We're told that they believe that someone who is critical of Scientology must be wrong and therefore bad, and that finding proof of the person's guilt is just a matter of time. We must be careful not to adopt this same mindset!

No matter how likely we think it is that the personality test caused her to commit suicide, there is no proof — like it or not, a few testimonials from ex-Scilons on how they gave personality tests does not constitute proof — and it would be a huge mistake for us to insist that there is. If next week we find out that there's evidence that she had actually made preparations for suicide the day before taking the test or something, then we can be accused of being reactionary and jumping to false conclusions to further our own agenda.

This seems to be sufficiently big news. It is likely to have no small amount of momentum on its own. Trying to push it too hard too soon makes it look like we're out to crucify CoS even for imagined crimes. It is not illegal to talk to someone who then turns around and commits suicide. Even outright bullying doesn't make it into murder. Trying to pin this on the auditor while the ink on the newspaper hasn't even dried yet reeks of the "guilty until proven guilty" mindset that I spoke about, and we should be wary of it. This isn't something that will quickly and quietly go away if we let it take its course for a little while, so don't be reckless.

Good point, we should not be too hasty in apportioning blame. However, if the details in the news reports are accurate, then there is already evidence of wrongdoing in this case. They have the timestamped personality test and results as evidence, and no-one is accusing Scientologists of murder in this case. Even if she had already been contemplating suicide, she went in to the Org and they lied to her - pretending they were qualified to help her. When Scientology claims it is the authority on the mind, it is claiming it provides mental health care. If the reports are true, the personality test result found in her room provides clear evidence that she was not provided appropriate care, in fact she was subjected to bullying. It is not murder, but they failed in their duty of care. As with the Queen Street massacre where Scientology personality testing was implicated, they have a duty of care to refer people to healthcare if they detect a problem. It is profoundly negligent to do nothing.

Originally Posted by Anne Ominous

Anonymous Norway should get in touch with this MP immediately and alert him to the impact Anonymous has had globally in just THREE MONTHS.

With his help we can make sure that, in one country at least, the cult can't commit acts like this. If the media pile on too, this horrible cult will be stopped dead in its tracks.

Anon, you know what to do.

I'm a norwegian anon, and this is way too early. He says himself in the translated article that he doesn't even want to discuss the case because it's too close in time.

He probably has tons of thoughts "maybe it was my fault" "what could we have done" "was she that kind of person" etc and mixing some "fighting cause" into it will only make it more confusing and disturbing. He wants to find out what he did wrong before he blames others. It's natural.

I think we should stay away from him, if anything needs to be sent, it needs to be ONE email which simply states a condolance and where we are from.

I'm sure he'll be ready to see this in an anti-scientology light in half a year maybe, but not now. So imo if we stay away/respectful, we might have a powerful ally in 6-12 months.

Yes, because that's exactly what someone with severe depression needs - a test, administered by someone with absolutely zero professional training, with a predetermined outcome telling her that her personality utterly fails and the only way it'll get better is to pay up and take the courses.
This is exactly what pisses me off about Co$. That poor girl, my heart completely goes out to her family and friends. I hope this reaches a wider media, this could seriously be bad for Co$ despite how much they deny their involvement.

Edit - N/A, I agree. It probably wouldn't be an idea to put any pressure on a grieving father regarding his daughter. Though that email should be sent, it just shouldn't be sent now.

I agree with what you have to say with the exception of this:

Originally Posted by Eff

If next week we find out that there's evidence that she had actually made preparations for suicide the day before taking the test or something, then we can be accused of being reactionary and jumping to false conclusions to further our own agenda.

I'm pretty intimately familiar with the suicidal mind, and if it DOES turn out that there is evidence that she had made preparations the day before, or even the week before, to my way of thinking that's even more damning. People contemplating suicide often obsess about it, and plan out the details far in advance. The Scilons claim that she went to them for help, and that they didn't solicit her to come to them.

If she had been planning her suicide, her trip to get help from them, where they most likely *insisted* that she was in bad need of help, would have been devestating. (Notice that I was careful to state "most likely" - You're right, we have no evidence that this was so.)

Again, they shouldn't even be OFFERING to help people with these types of problems.

Perhaps this tragedy was inevitable, it seems that she had a past history of mental illness of one type or another. But, I personally can't help but think that a visit to a Scientology "Personality Test" would have been the least helpful thing that she could have done.

If they found she was depressed, they should have told her to seek medical assistance immediately.

More:
- Den eneste positive egenskapen jeg hadde var at jeg var god på kommunikasjon - Innenriks - Dagbladet.no
«Synger du og plystrer for moro skyld?» - Nyheter - Dagbladet.no

This is so very awful! While the Co$ isn't responsible for her fragile mental state, they *are* responsible for aggravating it with their hokey bullshit they claim is accurate and true. Just awful, it's a tragic loss.

Norwegian blogs:
Dekodet: Scientologikirken og annen ikke-vitenskap og ikke-kirker
Dagens Ateist: Tok livet av seg etter Scientologi-test

Has anyone else noticed just HOW MANY people from co$ have chosen to jump to their death to end their life? It seems quite overwhelming..

Christ...... This fucking sucks. Something inside of me aches, right now. I hurt.

I have had a Scilon tell me that Scientology is the only way back from the edge. They are exploiting people when they are vulnerable.

this cult must be stopped.

this is why.

Originally Posted by MsCabbage

Has anyone else noticed just HOW MANY people from co$ have chosen to jump to their death to end their life? It seems quite overwhelming..

And now an official spokesperson from the Church has her say... "Tom Cruise can fly because he's OT11 1/2. You're not, stop trying to fly, you make us look bad. Seriously guys, believing you can fly? Fork over some more money first, then sure, we'll play along."

bad joke ohshi-

Originally Posted by N/A

I'm a norwegian anon, and this is way too early. He says himself in the translated article that he doesn't even want to discuss the case because it's too close in time.

He probably has tons of thoughts "maybe it was my fault" "what could we have done" "was she that kind of person" etc and mixing some "fighting cause" into it will only make it more confusing and disturbing. He wants to find out what he did wrong before he blames others. It's natural.

I think we should stay away from him, if anything needs to be sent, it needs to be ONE email which simply states a condolance and where we are from.

I'm sure he'll be ready to see this in an anti-scientology light in half a year maybe, but not now. So imo if we stay away/respectful, we might have a powerful ally in 6-12 months.

I think you're exactly right. The father has spoken because they want the truth to be told. But, it would be completely inappropriate for us to intrude on the family's grief. If they want to find us, they can.

We can provide information to their lawyer (who is named in one of the articles) or to the police in Nice or both.

Originally Posted by Unlisted

The scientologists in Nice got offended when confronted with the possibility that their "personality test" may have been a contributing factor. they claim it's a "tragic coincidence" that she took the test on the same day. (WRONG TIME to play the victim card!)

Yet if she had seen a psychiatrist at any point in her past, the CCHR drones would have been all over this like a fat kid on a Smartie.

Disgustingly repugnant cult is disgustingly repugnant.